Ayurveda for Your Home

In this episode, Lyssia sits down with France Brunel, a home wellness coach, interior designer, and Ayurvedic coach rethinking how our homes affect the way we feel, function, and move through life. Blending interior design with principles from Ayurveda, France has built her work around a question most people never think to ask: what if your home is either supporting your well-being or quietly working against it?

The conversation breaks down why so many people focus on wellness through food, fitness, meditation, and routines, while overlooking the environment they live in every single day. France explains how Ayurveda can be used to design from within, creating spaces that counterbalance your natural tendencies, whether you run anxious, lethargic, overstimulated, ungrounded, or simply drained by your surroundings. They explore how color can act almost like medicine, why certain materials and textures can calm or activate the nervous system, how lighting affects sleep and energy, and why a beautiful home is not always the same as a supportive one.

France also shares why so many of us design for the fantasy version of ourselves instead of the person we actually are, how small daily frictions in a home quietly build stress, and why waiting for the “perfect” home can keep your life in waiting mode. From rearranging what you already own to adding warmth, weight, light, color, or better flow, she explains how simple design shifts can change the way a space feels almost immediately.

By the end of this episode, you may realize that the reason your home feels off is not because you lack discipline, taste, or motivation. It may be because your space was never designed to support the way your body, mind, and life actually work. And once you start seeing your home as part of your wellness, not separate from it, you can begin designing from within.

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France Brunel
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamfrancebrunel/
Website: https://francebrunel.com/

Room to Think
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Transcript

Why Home Affects Your Health

Lyssia Katan 0:00

About here on the show, but starting at the very beginning, how did you even get into this and why?

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Yeah, that's an interesting question. Um, so I got into it because I got to the realization that your home is either supporting your life or quietly working against it. And most people have no idea that they live in the second one. And so I got into home wellness coaching and interior design that's focused on well-being to empower people to design their homes for themselves so that they can actually support, so that their homes can actually support their sleep, their mood, their focus, their energy, not just design a pretty or an aesthetically harmonious home. Um, because I got into it myself because I felt like I was doing everything right the workouts, the diets, the meditations, but I was still feeling drained. So I realized that I wasn't the only one feeling that way and that nobody, nobody was looking at the environment. But we live 90% of our lives indoors, and spaces are shaping every single day of our lives. And so now that's my main focus: helping people turn their home into a daily tool for well-being versus being a passive at best, or worse, a sabotaging backdrop to their life.

Lyssia Katan 1:21

So you've lived all over the world, right? France, Hong Kong, Brooklyn. Was there a place that really inspired you or changed you and made you realize that there is a connection between our well-being and our environment?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Yes. I had a bunch of spaces, I would say. First one is growing up in Hong Kong. I was introduced to Feng Shui at the age of nine years old. And that idea of how you arrange a space in a way that affects the people living in it never really left me. Um second, I would say, is, you know, college. I'd grown up with an interior architect mother. So my dorm was the first completely undesigned space I ever lived in. Beige furniture, shiny gray floors, no window treatments. And I felt it immediately. I felt drab, it was flat, it was uninspiring. And so that seed became planted. And then I think the last spot or moment that drove me to this focus and this realization that space is actually shaping us, whether we know it or not, is that I built a food company that was rooted in Ayurveda, which is traditional Indian medicine, a few years ago. I was totally obsessed with what we put in our bodies, but I kept seeing the same thing that we, you know, people are eating well, they're working out, they're meditating, but they're still feeling off. And the missing variable was always the environment. You know, harsh overhead lighting keeps your body on alert mode at 10 p.m. when you're supposed to create melatonin and start winding down for the day. Living rooms that are built around a TV defaults you into a passive habit of binge watching Netflix. There's a lot of cues that we take from our environment that impacts our well-being and how likely we are to achieve our dreams and our life goals. And individually, they might seem small, but together they actually shape how you feel, how you behave, and how you live every day. So that's really when it clicked. Home isn't decoration, it's a biological environment. And so I moved from thinking about what we put into our bodies, and there's so many people, and it's still very important, obviously, and there's so many people doing it really well, to redesigning the space that holds our entire life. And so that's my main focus now.

The Wellness Variable Everyone Misses

Lyssia Katan 3:44

So people really are very focused on health and wellness and diet and fitness, but they don't really look at their home, like you said. Why do you think that's so overlooked in the equation?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, that's a good question. I think the main reason is maybe because we can't see it working on us. So you feel when you've had a bad meal, you feel when you've missed a workout, you see it. Uh, but the bet, you know, a bedroom that's overstimulating you every night. Maybe you think you're a bad sleeper, your home office is draining you, that you feel uncomfortable sitting at, you think you lack discipline. So we we tend to blame ourselves instead of looking at the environment. And the wellness industry has done a great job at selling us things that we consume. But our home is one of the things that we're inside of for 80% of our life. And it's it's now changing. But until now, very few of us treating it, treated it as a health variable, which it truly is.

Lyssia Katan 4:47

Yeah, I was actually reading on your website, you were talking about the different colors and and also how food packages are these people are their job is to design food packages that make humans crave them based off of the colors. So you're seeing that in your house, you're gonna want to consume it. But has the home industry just not done much of that, or is it just not very prominent?

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Yeah, not at all. I think the home industry is dominated by aesthetic trends and visual visual movements as opposed to the link between um the home and our well-being. And as opposed to understanding how our brains scans our environments to answer that one main question, which is am I safe in this environment or am I not? And although all of us or most of us now live in safe environments, our brain is still, from an evolutionary per uh perspective, still scanning our environments for answering that question. And so we pick up all of our those cues, the colors, the shapes, the textures, the way the sound bounces off of the walls, all these are indicative and they of are we safe or are we not? And they're they're cues and data that our brain is processing constantly. Um, and so yeah, the home industry has been a is still in the styling phase of the industry. But I think people like you and I and all the the wonderful experts that you're interviewing on the podcast are starting to move move it, move the needle, and uh we're going into a more of a 2.0 direction for the industry, I think.

Lyssia Katan 6:25

Yeah, it's finally the time where the the research that's being done is coming down to the people because for so long, I mean, I've spoken about it before, it's it stayed in academia and it was just research that was done, but it wasn't brought down to the people of say, wait, actually, bright red walls are probably not great for relaxing in.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Yeah, and sometimes it comes down to you know bringing it down to a really simple concrete example like the red walls or you know, beige or colors or whatever it is. But um, yeah, and it's hard sometimes because like a lot of the experts are convinced and they know intrinsically, even interior design, traditional interior designers that are very style focused intrinsically know how to create a space that will calm the nervous system, most of them. But there's some there's still aesthetic, aesthetically pleasing, what I call mistakes that are happening, where space can be beautiful, but it can not be supporting you. It could quite leave us sabotaging you in the background. So um I think all of our, all of us as experts, our responsibility is to start to break it down into applicable principles and easy things that people can implement in their homes.

Lyssia Katan 7:40

And what about pushback to what has always been the style? Because I saw you just renovated your mother's kitchen, right? You added some color. Did you get any pushback from her?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Oh, pushback from clients on so I think on adding color or yeah, I mean, my mom wasn't a client in that, in that in that example, but she had no choice. I'm not an ungrateful daughter. But I mean, I think that's the thing. I think the big for me, my process starts with understanding the human and where that person has specific tendencies that the their environment can counterbalance. So do you tend to run anxious? Do you tend to run lethargic and unmotivated or you know, burning them in night oil and it's a little bit like competitive and a little too high strong? Like your environment can compensate for these qualities, and we all have natural tendencies. Um, but I I think my so my process starts with understanding the human, which is their natural tendency, but also their style. So I think I don't dictate a style or an aesthetic. I help you celebrate your style, but make decisions that will capitalize on your style, but that will also help you achieve your well-being goals in your home. Um, so I I think I don't get pushback because of that, because I'm there to help them create a stylist, uh stylish environment or an environment that they find aesthetically pleasing for them, but that also serves them in their life. So it helps them sleep better, it helps them eat more mindfully, it helps them connect with their family more, etc. I think those two can coexist. And I think the industry or traditional interior designers until now have only focused on style. And obviously, like, you know, simple functional questions like how do you use your kitchen? How do you use your living room? You know, do you want a TV? Do you not want a TV? Like simple functional requirements like that, but there's a 2.0 version, which is what is your natural tendency? Do you need how do you need your home to support you? I think that's this beginning conversation that is to me starting to be interesting, and where we see homes being more than just an aesthetic backdrop and becoming a tool for daily well-being.

Design For Your Tendencies

Lyssia Katan 10:01

So you do design spaces for habits, but every human has different habits. Can you give us some examples of how you've been able to design spaces that are a little different than maybe the norm for those specific clients and the way they live?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yes. Um, and sometimes, you know, the space might not look different, and you're like, oh, you know, it it the the final look, if you don't know the person, you might not understand, you know, the impact of the focus or the methodology. But for sure, you know, starting with different questions than most designers ask, which is what style do you like? But do you run anxious? Are you lethargic? Are you struggling to get up in the morning? Do you are you low on motivation? Like I pull on Ayurveda to really understand how someone's wired, and I design the whole space to counterbalance their natural tendencies rather than ignore them. Um, and so, you know, the per as an example to and to answer your question, the anxious person doesn't need an area in a minimal space that amplifies their sense of ungroundedness. On the opposite, they need weight, they need warmth, they need texture, anything that will actually ground the nervous system and give them a little bit of a stronger foundation. On the other end, the person who can't get going in the morning doesn't need a soothing, dim bedroom. They need a light, you know, they need a lot of natural light, they need reflective surfaces that will energize, they need uplifting colors. So you design for, you know, yeah, you design for, so those are examples of the choices will be different and very personalized to the person rather than just tapping into their aesthetic preferences. Are they a French country style or do they prefer mid-century modern? That I is is always a secondary question for me. The first is always, who are you and what help do you need?

Lyssia Katan 12:03

Yeah, it's like you're almost flipping the model on his head and saying, let's start with the human, not with how the space looks. Let's start with what actually it's doing to them.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Another example is also like, you know, we don't have to go so deep into anxiety and lethargia and all that stuff. Like, you know, also just designing for who you are actually are. Are you messy? Great. Like, I'm not gonna design for the fantasy, tidy version of you. I'm gonna design for you right now. So I'm gonna put a basket by the front door so you throw your shoes right in the moment you walk in. So you don't have to open a closet and actually store them neatly. Or I'll have a bowl for your keys, coins, and mails, or you can just throw the mess into the bowl and everything gets contained. So your house stays functional and you stop feeling like you're failing every time you walk in. Um, but I think that's where also where it gets interesting is that that's also how the home starts propelling you forward. That messy person, once the space is designed around how they actually live versus the ideal tidy version of themselves, they suddenly feel like they have their life together, not because they changed, but because the home stopped fighting them and they're starting, and the home is starting to support them. That's the pivot point for me, where you design for who someone is today. And in doing so, you start moving them towards who they want to become. And that's where the home becomes the container for your 2.0. Um, and I think that to me is huge, where we use how we look, we use our diet, our workouts to propel us to that 2.0 version of ourselves, but we don't use our homes yet to be the person that we know we can be, but we're not yet there.

Lyssia Katan 13:49

Do you think that a lot of the content coming out in the interior design space is designed for the ideal version of a human, the person that will open the cupboard and put their shoes in every single time?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

I mean, good designers are not supposed to. They're supposed to marry the the functional with the aesthetic. But yes, I mean, I mean, and we're I'm, you know, I've made those mistakes in my own apartment where I chose an aesthetic piece that's not comfortable at all, or I chose to design my entrance hallway in a certain way that doesn't fit with how I like to come into my home in the morning or in the evening, etc. Like, yes, I think um it's because it's a hard exercise to merge those two things together. So uh yes, I think we're all guilty of doing it. And you know, a good designer will do it uh at a minimal amount.

Color As Mood And Medicine

Lyssia Katan 14:42

And what about color? You talk about color a lot, and um, you say that it's almost like medicine. How can someone think about color beyond just the colors they find themselves gravitated to?

SPEAKER_00 14:55

I think you start with how you want to feel in that room, not what you like in general. So because a color you love in a restaurant, like a color you love in a restaurant might destroy your sleep in a bedroom. So um here I again pull on Ayurvedic principles where every person has natural tendency and color can either amplify or counterbalance it. Um so you know, someone who runs anxious might doesn't need a bright, energizing palette. They're already too activated, they need softness, warmth, depth. And someone who runs heavy and lethargic will need more um brightening and energizing colors. A practical way to see how we can tap into the power of color is to decode the interiors that we're already saving on Pinterest or on Instagram, for example. So you don't just save what looks good. You ask yourself, how does it actually, you know, okay, so I'm I'm initially attracted to this color combination. Uh is it just because it reminds me of, you know, a luxury hotel that I once went to or that I saw in a movie, or is it because it's making me feel calm, energized, grounded, inspired, or is it starting to make me feel it's beautiful? I saw it in a cool movie, but really living in it might feel make me feel a little too heavy and a little bit depressed. You start reading the combinations, you know, that turquoise rug against the velvet terracotta sofa, what is it doing to me? It's not random. Um, there's a specific emotional frequency coming from that combination. And once you identify it, that becomes your blueprint and those become the specs that you're shopping for. Um I think we don't do enough decoding. And it's just like a matter of just pausing on a picture for three minutes and asking ourselves, why do I like it? Do I like it because it is tapping into that status symbol that I've always aspired to? And that's fine too. But also, do I like it because I feel cocooned or I feel motivated and energized, and therefore I'm gonna put it in my home office. And so I'm gonna deconstruct that photo and say, okay, how are they aligning the colors? Is that turquoise rug, rugged in texture, or is it shiny and smooth, you know, uh reflective, satin-like quality? Um, deconstructing a photo is definitely an exercise that we can all do. It takes a little bit of training to trust our gut, but we know we just haven't, you know, with like everything else in life, we haven't had the practice of listening to ourselves. Um, and you can do the same with your closet. You know, pull out a coat that you love. You have a pink coat, let's say, and you drape it over your sofa for a week because you're considering a new sofa and a different color. You live with it. You see how it speaks to the other colors that you already have in your space. You see how it makes you feel at 8 a.m. when you wake up versus 9 p.m. when you're watching TV. You know, your wardrobe doesn't always contain your color instincts because we control a lot of what we look like, especially with this whole minimalism trend that we are stepping out of today. But there might be pieces, you know, even if it's just like a bikini or a beach um towel or something you use rarely that you don't dare to wear, but that would actually make you feel good to have in your home. I think these are the two main things that are very practical exercises that people can start doing in their home to get a sense of testing colors. We don't test enough. We feel like we should have enough of a good taste to make the right decision. But even professionals test all the time, whether it's in mood boards or using AI to render spaces or practically mocking up dimensions with tape on the floor, or you know, I think I'm a big believer in prototyping. Um, and we can do that very easily with color in the way I just talked about.

Lyssia Katan 18:59

Have you ever worked with anyone that's colorblind? And does that change any of this?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

No, I haven't. I'm sure this is like very interesting.

Lyssia Katan 19:08

I've never like color is so important to us, right? It's something that like I'm always wearing color. In fact, I think stores have lost their color in clothing, and I'm always looking for things that are bright and colorful. But like, does that change with someone who maybe sees a different tone? Can't, you know, the red or green or the blue and orange? So I've I've always just wondered because we talk about color in everything. Yeah, I work in tile, you know, like our thing is colorful tiles. What if you can't see that color?

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, for sure. And we all, you know, they're general universal effects of specific shades, but obviously that's why you prototype because you want to feel how there's a lot of color combinations I love, but that I don't want in my home. Um, and that I know because I've prototyped. I've I've applied anything that I have that's close to that shade and uh played around with them and lived with it before committing.

Lyssia Katan 20:04

And I like that you share on social media, like if you want your room to feel calm, here's a color combination you can use. And it's very easy for someone to pull from and just say, okay, this makes sense to me instead of starting from scratch.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yeah, starting from scratch with color is really hard. And so I'm building tons of tools that are plug and play for people to, you know, have specific codes from Benjamin Moore. And so they can, you know, the four colors that are known to work together to create a calming bedroom. And they're not only four, there's like tons, but I I I pull out specific color combinations that people can apply uh and plug and play in their home because assembling color, you know, no, it's just like with everything else with interior design, no decision is individual. Everything speaks to everything, and so making a decision will impact how the rest looks. And so with color, it's strong. Like a teal blue can look dark or um bright or energizing or calming, depending on what it's coupled with. So that's uh definitely a that's when you know getting help from professionals or spending time on YouTube tutorials will help for sure.

Lyssia Katan 21:15

That's actually it's something we see all the time in tile because um our tiles, we allow clients to custom create any tile combination they want. And sometimes they'll pick two colors that they really love separate. And when we create the sample tile for them, it looks so different. It either looks dark or it looks not not what they imagined, but you separate the colors, it the exact colors you picked. It's just when you put them together, they communicate in a way. And sometimes two totally unexpected colors really bring out beautiful hues in one another.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

I was just gonna say that. Yeah, some colors I would never think I'd like, and then coupled with the other, it's perfect. So yeah.

Ayurveda Meets Interior Design

Lyssia Katan 21:53

Yeah, it's almost not that color. So uh talking about Ayurveda, I it might just be my lack of knowledge in the topic. But I've always known Ayurveda to be like, you know, the ginger drinks you drink, or like the turmeric lattes and things like that. Which obviously I know is is probably not Ayurveda at all, but that's kind of how it's communicated to the masses. Can you tell me a little bit more and how it connects with the individual human and their space rather than their internal?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yes. So Ayurveda is traditional Indian medicine. It's a 4,000 year old system of medicine. You can call it DIY. It was designed to empower people to know how to eat and how to live a lifestyle that keeps them in alignment and keeps them healthy from a body, mind, and heart or soul perspective. It doesn't have a direct correlation with interiors. There's another system called Vastu that come from the general Vedic sciences that come from India. That you know, there's yoga, Ayurveda, Vastu, Jyyoti, which is astrology. And so Vastu is kind of like the Indian version of Feng Shui. So that's where they talk a lot about energetics and how spaces affect the human body. I, because I'm an Ayurvedic coach, I have and a designer, I've merged both sciences together. But basically, what Ayurveda has helped me do, because it's a very personalized system of well-being, it will never say, you know, to everyone that everyone should drink a ginger drink. It will say based on your, it typifies people in one of seven mind and body types. And according to your mind and body type, it will determine the natural tendencies that you will have to get off balance. So, you know, you'll have the anxious person, the lethargic person, the um, and I mean, I'm overly simplifying all of this, but it basically gave me a framework for personalization that goes much deeper than style when it comes to interior design. The core idea is that everyone has a natural constitution, tendencies towards certain balances, uh, overweight, anxiety, constipation, like it goes all to all of the unsexy stuff. Um, and you restore balance by bringing it, by bringing in the opposing quality. And that principle of bringing in the opposing quality has been huge in influencing my design work. So, for example, if you run dry and cold and anxious, they Ayurveda will say you need to eat warm, hydrating, cooked foods that have a lot of natural fats in them. You need to oil your skin to ground your nervous system. And so I, and if you're, you know, lethargic and you tend to have a lot of phlegm in your body, a lot of um uh allergies and you carry extra weight, then you will go towards more drying and heating foods that will start to burn all of that phlegm and start to activate your metabolism and your energy. Um, so that those are two examples of how you counterbalance with the opposing qualities. And so in design, I apply that same logic. I'm not designing a room to look good in a universal sense. I'm designing it to counterbalance the specific person uh tendencies. So if I tend to run anxious, I live on the 32nd floor in New York by the water, there's tons of wind, cold, and drying qualities. I will just do everything to basically increase my anxiety level. My environment will be designed with grounding elements like a thick rug, heavy legs that will ground my nervous system, natural materials that are heavy, like travertine and marble and heavy woods. And I won't use danty uh legged chairs that are beautiful, aesthetically beautiful. It just will not help me ground my nervous system. So that's a very uh concrete example, hopefully, at showing you how design choices can be made to counterbalance the natural tendency of a person.

Lyssia Katan 26:13

You're actually putting words to something that I just couldn't explain for the longest time. I used to live in a high-rise and I just felt always floating, always just like in the clouds. And when I moved somewhere close to the ground, I finally was able to say, like, I feel so much more grounded. I was just up in the air, and no one has been able to explain this to me until you, right now.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

And you physically are up in the air, so you need weight to ground you as much as possible.

Lyssia Katan 26:45

Do you see that with clients? Like, do you see how like are an immediate change in their life when you do take out some elements and replace them? Yeah, for sure. For sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

I mean, we are energetic beings, so we're influenced by energy, by subtlety, right? And it's the type of stuff that people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like you, we've all stepped into a hotel room and we felt good. We all stepped into a restaurant and we felt it good. And the opposite is true as well. We stepped into a restaurant, the table was wobbly, the light was harsh, the sound was bouncing off of tiles or of um, you know, materials that are weren't helping with all the noise, etc. Like we've all felt the impact of a space, and it's not random. A good space is not randomly, it doesn't randomly feel good. It's specifically designed to create that feeling. And so when you do, people feel it for sure.

Stressful Choices That Look Stylish

Lyssia Katan 27:43

What are some elements that people incorporate in a very well-meaning way, but actually create a lot of stress for them?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

I think my number one would be, you know, the use of neutral color palettes, uh, the beige, the grage, the whites, uh, in an effort to be elegant, not controversial and calming and soothing. Uh, but I think that actually sometimes backfires because it feels flat and it can dull your mood and your energy levels, your motivation, and kind of, you know, linger a little bit of a depressing feeling. And obviously, some people are gonna be more sensitive to it than others. But I think that would be the number one. Also, we think we need to create a calm home. So it needs to not have anything. Uh, we associate color with things that are jarring or things that are jumping at us and that are aggressive, but actually, there's so many color shades that are uh soothing and calming way more than white. Uh, you know, there's some white shades that are very energetic and actually jarring, especially if you've got overhead lights and you don't have any layering lighting and all that stuff. So um, you know, there's not uh yeah, so that I would say that's the one huge misconception that I see a lot. Um I think other things is maybe wanting or feeling like they can't have a nice home until they or they can't invest in their home until they own it. And so they'll stay in a rental for years. It could be like, you know, two to eight years, feel like shit about their apartment, and uh kind of wait for their ideal home in order to invest in making their space a home. Um, and I think I call it the waiting room syndrome that where you live in a waiting room, kind of waiting for your life to be different in order to start enjoying it. Uh, but I think obviously, based on what we talked about until now, the home will impact everything in your life, how you feel, but also, therefore, how you think, your behaviors, the opportunities you bring, you attract into your life. And so it kind of ends up, you live in a waiting room and your life becomes uh and turns into waiting mode. Um, I think that is, I always encourage people to be smart financially, but to invest in their rental regardless of how long they are staying. And obviously, they make decisions according to how long. If it's six months, you're not gonna redo the floors or you're not gonna, you know, change everything about the space. But if it's a year plus, you can change the curtains, you can change the door handles, you can change, you can bring in plants, you can bring in color, you can cover that couch that came with your rental that's gray and depressing. You can do a lot of stuff that's financially responsible to make it feel like a home now. So you start living your life now. I think that's huge. I see that all the time. And to me, it's such a missed opportunity. I'm like, what are you waiting for? You know, let's be smart and resourceful about how we make our home a home, but let's do it because, you know, by the time we get the mansion that we aspire to have, there's a lot of years between now and then.

Stop Waiting To Fix Rentals

Lyssia Katan 31:11

That's such a good point. I feel like people wait in so many things. Like when they get fit, when they buy a house, when they get a promotion, when things calm down at work. Like we're living right now. This is the time. Like, what are we waiting for? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

It's just, you know, according to your time frame, you'll make decisions differently, and that's totally fine.

Lyssia Katan 31:31

Right. And sometimes the space affects you to create something totally new that you wouldn't have been inspired to do in a gray rental.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Because every space has limitations too. And the fact that it's a rental, actually, I noticed that in Paris. I live between Paris and New York, and I own in New York, but I rent in Paris. And because I rent, I'm almost more free creatively because I'm like, oh, it's just a rental, it's okay. Um, I'm not making a decision for you know the next five years. I'm making decisions for the next six months. So, you know, I will use cheaper materials, I'll be more inventive and resourceful in how I, you know, decorate a huge wall because I'm not gonna buy a huge expensive canvas. I'm gonna try to be resourceful in how I fill up that space. So it makes me more creative and it frees me to think differently and to try things. And so actually being in rental is almost um a happy accident and uh a catalyst for actually experimenting. And we should use that as a platform for fun as opposed to kind of an oppressive feeling oppressed by our current situation.

Lyssia Katan 32:36

Yeah, and I've seen on your page you talk about it too, but there's so many materials these days that you don't have to commit to. You're not knocking down a wall, but you can put like the reflective paper or the reflective stickers you put on your hallway that I recently saw changes the entire space. And sometimes paint you can paint in a rental. Most times they don't care as long as you just paint it back.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Exactly. I think it I with that I'm always uh on the on the on the side of asking for forgiveness versus asking for permission.

Lyssia Katan 33:08

Yeah, I agree.

Texture And Materials Change Energy

Lyssia Katan 33:10

I agree. So can you walk us through how different materials and textures change how a space actually feels on our nervous system?

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah. Um I think uh I mean, it can different materials can either ground you, energize you, uh, they can make you feel um held or not. I think um the tapping into textures and materials is a very uh easy way after color to um create specific results. So if you run a little heavy and slow, use reflective surfaces that will reflect and bounce the light off of them and add more brightness to the space and energy to the space. Use lighter shapes, uh thinner legs, more airy um components in the room. So you're not gonna have a block for your coffee table. You might have a coffee table that actually has legs so that there's air that circulates under. Um materials aren't just an aesthetic choice, they're a physiological one. Um, if you feel like you're needing, if you're anxious, you want grounding, more matte um textures and materials that will absorb more of the light and uh reverberate less energy. Um that's an example, or tactile surfaces instead of cold, hard finishes. So papier machet, uh rugged wood materials, anything that's not perfectly smooth, uh will if it's yeah, will can also add some grounding elements to the space.

Lyssia Katan 34:54

How can someone find out what type of person they are besides knowing themselves?

SPEAKER_00 35:00

I mean, if you're if you they're in Ayurveda, you you go to an Ayurvedic practitioner and they look at your tongue, they ask you questions about your digestion and your lifestyle and how you handle stress, et cetera, and they will typify you into one of these seven types. They're also, if you want a, you know, a little bit of a less authentic way, there are a bunch of quizzes online that can typify you. They ask you 20 questions, and according to how you answer, you'll be bucketed in one of those. Um, I think then it's just you know, figure out we we also run in a in a it doesn't truly matter what you are, you know. I think it's understanding how you feel at the end of the day and how do you feel in the morning and midday? You know, they're like key times of the day that you can use to analyze how you feel. Um, do you tend to have an overrunning mind in the evening and you have a hard time winding down? Um, do you tend to not, you know, be motivated to tackle your work or your day in the morning? Um, do you run uh, you know? Yeah, I think, yeah, I think that's those are simple ways to connect with oneself, start journaling, start asking you the those types of yourself those types of questions. I think you'll get

How To Learn Your Type

SPEAKER_00 36:25

to an answer.

Lyssia Katan 36:25

Yeah, it feels like people are so in touch with certain things about themselves and so out of touch with other things, like the space you live in. And so you have lived in so many different places across the world. And like you said, Paris, Williamsburg, uh, Hong Kong. Did you notice how your body reacted to those spaces outside of the home, just the cities themselves?

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Yes, and I actually designed my homes specifically to counterbalance the energy of the city. But um, yeah, I mean, in New York, I will feel more invincible. The kind of the that notion of you know, the the traditional American dream, uh, I think is obviously has maybe changed, but it's still there. Um, where there's a an energy of of doing, of hustling, of creating, of you feel like you're rising and you're you can, you know, challenge your limiting beliefs and achieve your dreams. I actually chip at them little by little. In France, it's more of a calming, reflective, aesthetically oriented energy, uh, where things are more about exchange, pleasure, um, and beauty um and being rooted in history and culture. I think uh this, yeah, there's and it's it's more communal, less individual. Um, and so all of those energies, and I'm sure I mean we could do that exercise with every city in the US, every city in the world, etc. Um, but because I live between the two, they're most at the foreground for me right now. Um, but every city has very unique energy, and the way you design your home should actually be considering the energy of the city, just because it's um, you know, you don't live in a vacuum. You get into your home after a day outside in the city, and so um your home is gonna have to restore you after the day outside. And so, how does it restore you? It should restore you based on the experience that you've had outside.

Lyssia Katan 38:42

I'm laughing because in New York, I whenever I'm in New York, I feel like I'm in a movie because so many movies have been filmed in New York. Like, you're like, you can achieve whatever you want to do. Like, just do it. And in in France and Paris, like it's just people are, at least I feel from someone who's never lived there for a long time, like people just take their time, they're more admiring the beautiful streets. Not to say that New York isn't beautiful, it is, but it's just people aren't really taking time to admire. Whereas in France they're sitting, they're chilling, like, I don't know if everybody works or not, but in New York it feels like everyone's running somewhere, everyone's on their way to a meeting. In France, they're just like, lay back. Is that how it is when when you really live in the world?

SPEAKER_00 39:21

So the French person will tell you that's actually not true. Um that's like a stereotype because Paris Parisians feel stressed out. Like Paris is the is the New Yorker of France. Um, and I think they are. I mean, life is expensive, you know, it's number one tourist city in the world, so tourists make it that rents and everything is expensive, even if it's less expensive than New York, it's still like a very, you know, uh popular city that is expensive. Um, I think it's just like valuing different things. Um, here we value um achievement and we value um surpassing yourself and becoming a better version of yourself and the 2.0 and self-development and self-betterment, all of this came from the US. In France, they value uh being interested in their work, but also they value more holistic their their life holistically. They're not single-minded towards achievement, uh, and that's for New York. Uh, they're really more interested in having a holistically balanced life where their social life is interesting, their health is good, their romantic and sensual, sexual life is is thriving, they love you know spending time with their family over food, they are interested in politics, like they are going to be maybe more well-rounded. And so that's also how it dictates how their time is spent. So it's less about like the traditional kind of far niente, the French don't do anything perspective, like mentality. It's more like they value more than just achievement. And so, depending on your season of life, like I love being in New York because I'm in a built season of my life. Um, but you know, the French will say, like, what where's the other, you know, rest of your pie? It's, you know, so it's definitely different ways of living life and valuing different things.

Lyssia Katan 41:27

I'm glad you're clarifying that because as an American in France, I'm just like, does does nobody work here? Like what they've been at lunch for an hour and a half drinking wine in the middle of the day. But now that you explain it, that makes so much sense. And almost it, it seems like a better way of living. Obviously, every place has different, you know, there's no better or worse, but when you look at it that way, you really get an understanding.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

There's always disadvantages and advantages to wherever you live. Um, I think to that, like you could say the same thing. You walk into Soho or Tribeca during the day, you're like, what are these people doing? They're all lunching or taking photos of themselves on Soho Streets. So, you know, I mean, I think every I think, you know, with like remote work and the whole influencer YouTube world, you never know if people are working or not. Uh, and some of them are always working even if they seem like they're not. So uh it's an it's but the whole thing around like being single-mindedly focused around achievement and money versus a balanced life is definitely two contrasted ways of living that I think are very true and prompt, at least from my personal experience, from living in both countries.

Cities Have Energy Too

Lyssia Katan 42:37

Yeah, I mean, I live in Miami and you go to any, you know, any place in Miami, you're like, nobody here is working. But really, when you're online and you're looking for the hottest restaurant, somebody had to go there and shoot content for you to see it. So, yeah, they are working. We just have a different definition of working. Yeah. So, do you think that, I mean, discussing all this location and where you live, do you think home is something you find or is it something you actively create?

SPEAKER_00 43:06

That's a very good question. I think you find the space and you create the home. Like, yeah, you find the place and you turn it into a home. So even if it's a temporary rental with beige walls and no natural light, you can make it into yours. You can make it more optimal for the life you want to live. It's not about what's there, it's about what you bring it, bring to it intentionally. So most people wait for the perfect home to start caring about it, but the way you treat your space right now is a reflection of how you relate to yourself right now and how you relate to your life and the opportunities that you're open to receiving. So that's worth paying attention to. Um, so I think you find the space, but you turn it into a home for yourself.

Lyssia Katan 43:52

That's such an important distinction because going back to what we were talking about about waiting, a lot of people wait to have the perfect body in order. To wear the clothing that they want to wear or wait to have, you know, the perfect whatever to get into a relationship. And that's really just it's it's procrastination, really, because you're here at this moment. How can you improve or be happy with your decision instead of putting it out somewhere in the future?

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yeah, and we've all been there. So, you know, zero judgment. And I sometimes am still there. Uh, but I think this whole proactive mindset is an important one to have in life overall. And since we're talking about the home now, in home, uh, because what you are given is always changeable or optimizable. Um, so you know, even if it's a rental and you don't like the overhead light and it has this like ugly glass 1960 lampshade, you can unscrew it, store it safely in a closet for when you give the apartment back. And then there's tons of, you know, uh plug-and-play attachable lampshades now done for ceiling lights, for rental, the rental-friendly solutions, blah, blah, blah. Like, I think you know, the deck of cards that we're given in life or with our rental is not necessarily um the way that we have to live. There's a lot of changes we can make in a smart way to optimize how we feel and start truly capitalizing on the life we're living now.

Lyssia Katan 45:22

Yeah. It almost feels like, and I was reading a really interesting book about this, that people are subconsciously victimizing themselves, saying, Oh, this is just where I need to live for the next two years, or this is just the way it is. Well, really, like, as far as I know, we have one life right now in this body. Like, go out, do it, get the plant, get the paint, you know, make it better for you because it's it's your life. You're not gonna do this 30 years from now. Do it right now. And we often overlook that.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

And some people, Alan de Baton uh talks about this a lot, and he's he's very funny in how he he speaks about it because he says some people are not affected by their space, and lucky them, it's amazing for them. Uh, and it's actually the people that we should feel sorry for the people who are shopping at West Ham on the weekend because they are actually psychologically weak and they need their environment to support their weak psychology. And I mean, it's not, you know, untrue in full transparency. I think I tap into color and I love living in colorful environments because I think I'm also hiding a little bit about or compensating for some of the darkness that's happening in my inner world. Um, and so, but he's saying there is a small percentage of the population that doesn't care and they're strong-minded, and that's great for them, for the rest of us. So, you know, if you're really not affected by your space, cool, amazing. Spend your energy and your time on other stuff. But a lot of us are very affected by our space uh without really realizing it. And while and it's it's in listening to these conversations um like this one that we're starting to, that they might start to realize the impact that the space has on them.

Start With One Friction Point

Lyssia Katan 47:12

So if someone listening is feeling unsettled or just like not at peace with their space, where do you suggest they start? Where what are they looking at?

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Yeah, so I think if you're feeling unsettled in your life right now, I'm not for a full room or full apartment overhaul. I focus on the small stuff, and I think you should too. And you start with what's bothering you the most that you walk past every day that is creating this small friction and that seems too small to care for, but actually should be paid attention to. So that pile of clothes that's been on the chair for three weeks, the broken frame that you keep on meaning to fix, the armchair you actually really dislike every time you walk through by it, or like a dark corner that makes the living room feel heavy. And even if you haven't identified those spots, I mean the clutter, it's easy to identify, but like sometimes we don't identify why no one spends time in the living room or and we're not sure why. I mean, spend time in it, try to decode it or get a professional to help you. Um but I think focusing on these things, like the entrance, that's like drowning in mess. Um, these things might seem minor, but that's the fastest and the best place to start because your nervous system is registering them every single time that you walk by them every day. And so each of those unresolved things is a low grade signal that something's wrong and something's unfinished and something needs attention. So it's taking mind space and creating a little friction that you don't need. Um, and you multiply that by 10 items across your home, and you're carrying around this constant background hum of stress that you can't even name. So before you think about redesigning anything, do a walkthrough slowly. Notice what makes your body contract versus expand. Um, not what looks bad, what you're judging for not being trendy, or what not, you know, not elegant enough, or not close to what your favorite influencer on Instagram's home looks like, etc. Truly what feels bad, the things that make you slightly tense, slightly tired, slightly irritating, irritated, even if you don't know why. Um and so those are your first priorities. So you fix the frame, you remove the armchair, you add that lamp in that dark corner, you put the basket in the entrance to throw your shoes in. Uh it all it costs almost nothing, but the nervous system relief is really immediate because you've stopped sending yourself those little signals that things are falling apart and that you're, you know, not living in a home that's up to your standards, yet that somehow you're failing.

Lyssia Katan 50:00

And often these things take less than five minutes. I've timed it before. Like we've all been there, we don't want to unload the dishwasher. It takes five minutes. But walking into a kitchen with dishes in the sink is so much more frustrating than the five minutes you're gonna take, you know, unloading the dishwasher or cleaning up the clutter or or moving something.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

And it's it's a habit we start building, and we can't be perfect in every area of our home. I think really that's why I'm saying like, let's not wait to do an overhaul. Let's not wait to have money when I can hire a designer, let's not wait till we're in a perfect home, until I can enjoy my home and my life. Like, I think it's start with the stuff that's the most annoying. It could be just one thing this week. And we all have it. I have a pile in my entrance that has been there for two weeks, and I've just been too lazy to, you know, I don't know, I don't know why, but it's it's annoying. It's it's creating constant stress. And obviously, all these are subtle. I'm not saying, you know, it's uh it's not life-threatening, but it does compound over time into how you feel, how you live, the behaviors you have, and the daily life and how likely you are to achieve your goals or not.

Lyssia Katan 51:07

All right, it's like adding to a like an invisible to-do list that your brain likes to complete a cycle. So like you're leaving that thing undone. You're it's constantly, you're just just take the five, 10, whatever, 15 minutes to fix it or change it, and then your brain could be like, okay, check. It's off onto the next. That's interesting.

Shop Your Home Before Buying

Lyssia Katan 51:27

Yeah. So with everything going on in mainstream media, is there something that's being said that you completely disagree with?

SPEAKER_00 51:34

A bunch of things. I think my main one is this focus, this overfocus on style, how that a stylish home is an optimal home. Um, it's not. I see it all the time. You know, there might be a beautiful styled bookshelf that's wrapping around the head of the bed. It's symmetrical, it's gorgeous, it's really Instagram worthy, it creates a lot of drama in the bedroom, you know, those like shelves filled with books around the bed, but it's completely sabotaging sleep. There's way too much visual, visual stimulation, too many objects that the brain is registering. Also, all of those words from the books that are inside that are hosted in inside the the books, they're floating over your head. Uh, you know, I mean, you believe in it or not. And if you sleep like a rock, who cares? But if you have light sleep, then let's start considering these things as true stressors because they are, they can be. Beautiful is not the same as supportive. And I think to me, that's like the number one thing that I disagree with in the industry where I love beauty. I am run by trying to create beauty. So it's just for me, shouldn't be the first and only focus. And then I have a second one that may be around that, you know, we're constantly pushed to buy new things to fix our homes. And most people already have everything they need. It's just badly arranged. Uh, and I do that in my coaching sessions, virtually or in person, all the time. Is I shop their home first, obviously we're their permission, but we fix the layout first and we shop their own home. We move things from one room to the other. Uh, you know, nine times out of ten, the problem isn't what you don't own. It's actually how it's placed and how it's used. There's a lot that can be done with curation and layout. And, you know, we all have a trillion, you know, a few framed pictures behind our home office door that we never use, or in my case, in the closet. Um, you know, but we've also have empty walls that are draining us and annoying us every time we walk by. Why don't we start reshuffling things around? A lot of us just like plop furniture and plop things when we move in. And then two years later, it's still in that exact position, and we wonder why we're not using a living room and why the whole family is never in the living room. And then I get into the living room space of my client for a coaching session, and I realize that the armchairs are stuck on a wall a trillion miles away from the sofa. And so the living room becomes this corridor space that the family walks through but never spends time inside of. And so a simple fix is like, okay, let's float the armchairs closer to the coffee table and the and the sofa so that there's less physical space between the people walking, uh sitting across from each other. And two weeks after, I get an email from a client saying, oh, the whole family is now spending time in the living room. We love it. So there's simple shifts like that. And so the industry and the influencers pushing us to constantly buy new things to stay on top of the trends and to which are stylistically driven is uh something that I think is a missed opportunity. Um, and we should shop our own home first, and then you know, obviously you can replace that table lamp that was moved from the home office that you never used on the console that you need. If you don't like it, of course, you can replace it. But let's start with what we have and then see if there's anything else that we need to add or switch.

Lyssia Katan 55:26

That is a great point because so many things in our world today are pushing us to say, buy this, buy this, buy this, it'll make you feel better. It's that instant gratification. But do you need it? And not unlike the floating words, like it does carry an energetic weight in your home. If you have the air fryer you bought one time and are never using again, right? Or, or whatever, the decor, the throw pillows that you bought, but you're not really feeling like you can reuse, recycle them in your house, or just get rid of them, donate them, right? Goodwill, salvation army. So many places are so grateful to accept these things that are perfectly good and use maybe once.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

And I think starting with thinking you need a new couch because you saw a cool new couch on your influencer's Instagram account might actually it's a way to, it could be a way to waste money. Like, I think starting with reshuffling the layout, you know, bringing in a floor lamp to ground the couch, bringing in a side table from your home office that you never use, it might actually make you under realize that you need a new rug and you don't need a new couch. So like I think we need to start with the space and prototyping things in our space, even if it's stealing the floor lamp in our bedroom that we'll leave in the bedroom, but just to test is a floor lamp helping with grounding the sofa, or is it really that I don't like the sofa? You know, I think sometimes it's that we don't like the space rather than the individual item.

Lyssia Katan 56:55

And we believe a whole new item is gonna give us a whole new feeling in that space when most often it doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

No, and that's where we waste a lot of money.

Design For You Not Guests

Lyssia Katan 57:03

I I've gotten so much from this episode, France. Is there something that you want to leave our listeners with? Because there's so much content in here that I know they're gonna find super, super valuable.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

I'm so glad. I think the one thing I hope people walk away with is understanding that they're not the problem and that if your home feels off, if you can't focus, if you're not sleeping well, if you walk through the door and feel heavy instead of restored or unmotivated, etc., that's not necess that's not a personal failing. I mean, you might be doing things in your lifestyle that are preventing you from sleeping properly, et cetera, but that could also be a space problem. And space problems are solvable. Um, I think you you either do it yourself, you get on YouTube tutorials, you get onto Instagram tutorials like mine, or you hire professionals like me or any of the other experts that you interview here on your podcast to help you design a home that works better. And there's many ways to do it. I don't only do A to Z projects, I do tons of just like one-hour ad hoc calls where I will come in and solve one bottleneck that you have in your home, whether it's you not being able to decide what rug shape that you need, the size, the color, or you don't know how to paint what paint color you want to add in your bathroom, et cetera. Like because every decision is is intertwined, um unlocking one decision will unlock the rest of the project and will prevent you from just living in limbo. Because a lot of our home interior design projects, whether it's decor or more evolved, are on hold because of that one decision that we can't make. I think also I hope that people stop designing their homes for others. Um, so many people, so many spaces are designed for the two dinner parties that you host a year, or the neighbors that you host once a year instead of the person that actually is living there every day. Um, your home should really support you, your energy, your habits, your heritage and your dreams. And so bringing in your cultural heritage, your weird little collections, your love of color, or your need for calm, I think people need to give themselves permission to own what genuinely makes them feel good instead of what feels correct or tasteful. Um, and so we don't have to overhaul everything overnight. You can, you know, start small, one corner, one room, one decision at a time. You rearrange what you already own, turn off that overhead light, move the chair closer to the window, make small shifts that will change the space surprisingly fast.

Lyssia Katan 59:53

And I'm glad you mentioned that because you, first of all, it's sometimes just an easy fix. It's one quick thing. I'm glad you mentioned you do really short, like one-hour sessions, so someone doesn't think it's a complete overhaul. And also, creators like you, like your Instagram page is fantastic. The way you like show a space with overhead lighting versus mood lighting or layered lighting or even doors. I was just watching your video of how like door frames can be different colors, and it's it's it it helps people visualize how it actually looks before they even touch anything in their space. They make them realize it the videos make someone realize, oh, actually I I can paint my door, or oh yeah, I should get layered lighting, but instead of just telling them because so many times we tell people things, but it's different when we see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

I try to show the impact of design decisions as much as possible.

Lyssia Katan 1:00:45

And it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

What does the same space look like with overhead lighting only versus with layered lighting? Floor lamp, table lamp, sconce, overhead, and this difference is striking. Same with those colored doors. What does the same room look like with a white door versus a red door? You know, and I do that, I apply that across um different concepts. But for sure, seeing the before and after and the impact of that decision in the same space is very striking.

Lyssia Katan 1:01:13

It's amazing, and I'm so grateful for you to be making it, France. Thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I've learned so much. I know our listeners are gonna get a lot out of it, and thank you for creating such helpful and useful content. It's helping people across the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:29

Thank you for this conversation, Lysia, and for doing all of the work that you do at gathering all of these experts. Your podcast is immensely insightful. So thank you. Thank you for being

Closing And How To Support

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

on it.

Lyssia Katan 1:01:41

Thank you so much for spending this time with me on Room to Think. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to follow the show, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who you think would really appreciate a more thoughtful approach to their space. You can find more design meets psychology insights on social, in our community, and definitely in upcoming episodes so you can build a better life by design. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you next time.