Designing for the Desert

In this episode, Lyssia sits down with Dustin Ence, architect, builder, and founder of Dustin Brent Design Build and Sagewood Homes, to explore what actually makes a home feel good—and why so many homes fall short. Dustin shares how working across both design and construction gives him a unique perspective on what gets lost between the blueprint and the finished space, and why being involved in the entire process allows him to protect the original vision of a home.

The conversation breaks down the difference between homes that look good and homes that feel right, and why factors like proportion, circulation, natural light, and material honesty play a much bigger role than most people realize. They explore why bigger homes often feel worse to live in, how small design decisions can ripple into major issues during construction, and why designing in response to the landscape—especially in the desert—creates spaces that feel more grounded and intuitive. Dustin also shares common mistakes homeowners make, from overcomplicating design to choosing materials that imitate rather than express their true nature. By the end of this episode, you may start to understand why certain spaces feel effortless while others feel off, and how thoughtful design can create a home that truly supports the way you live.

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Dustin Ence
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Website: https://dbdesign.build/

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Transcript

When Design Meets Construction

Dustin Ence 0:00

When the design and construction is separated, a lot of things get lost in translation. When you're talking about building homes or the construction industry, there's such a massive range of types of homes. One thing gets put in the wrong place, it can affect so many things down the road.

Lyssia Katan 0:18

In your opinion, what separates a house that looks good from a house that feels good?

Dustin Ence 0:24

Homes that feel good usually have thoughtful circulation, comfortable room proportions, and natural light. Custom home should be honest with its materials all the way through.

Lyssia Katan 0:38

What's something that someone who's not in the industry completely misunderstands about building homes? What if the difference between a house that looks good and one that actually feels good? Came down to just a few invisible decisions that most people never think about. Welcome to Rune Think. Today I'm sitting down with architect Dustin Enns. He designs and builds custom homes in southern Utah and works across both architecture and construction, which gives them a unique perspective on how homes actually come together. We talk about things like why some houses look beautiful but feel uncomfortable, or why bigger homes often feel worse to live in. And we even get into why he believes natural light might be the most powerful material in architecture. By the end of this episode, you'll understand what actually makes a home feel good and how small design decisions like light, materials, and proportion can completely change the way a space is experienced. Let's get into it. Dustin, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show.

Dustin Ence 1:44

Yeah, absolutely.

Lyssia Katan 1:46

So Dustin is the owner and the lead designer and project manager of Dustin Brent Design and Build and Sagewood Homes, where he designs and builds custom homes in southern Utah. With experience in both the trades and architecture, he approaches projects through a design build lens, creating homes that respond to the landscape and translate thoughtful design into well-crafted spaces. Dustin, welcome to Room with Think.

Dustin Ence 2:14

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.

Lyssia Katan 2:16

So for people meeting you for the first time, what do you do and why do you do it?

Concrete Craft And Precast Basics

Dustin Ence 2:20

Yeah, so I design and build custom homes. My company, Dustin Brent Design Build, handles all of the architectural design. And then Sagewood Homes takes over from there and handles all of the construction. Yeah. So I, you know, I like being involved in the entire process from the first sketch all the way through the finished home. When the design and construction is separated, a lot of things get lost in translation. And so being involved in both of them allows me to, you know, make sure the original design intent actually makes it all the way through the project.

Lyssia Katan 3:01

Absolutely. So you grew up in the construction industry, is that correct?

Dustin Ence 3:06

I did, yeah. So I'm a second generation builder. Literally, since I could walk, I've been on a job site. You know, I got a nickname very early on is hammer. So that was given to me by like my dad's workers back in the day. Because I just carried around a hammer. Like that's all I did. I just pound on things as I kind of meandered through the job site. Probably wasn't the safest place for me to be as a toddler or whatever. But yeah, dad was a builder, so around all the trades from very early on, framing and concrete were some of the trades that you know I have more experience with. I did I did concrete for quite a long time before my father ran crews for him. I got into precast concrete, so it was kind of more of that technical and like high detail concrete rather than just pouring slabs or foundations and stuff like that. So kind of took it from you know just a standard trade uh into something that was much more like precise and and design forward.

Lyssia Katan 4:24

Pre-cast concrete for our listeners who know nothing about construction. Can you tell us the difference between pre-cast and poured concrete?

Dustin Ence 4:32

Yeah, so most concrete that you see is poured concrete. You know, you you form up on site and you pour the concrete where it's going to live the rest of its life. Uh precast concrete uh is usually done in a shop. So I was doing more countertops and sinks and furniture and stuff. And so it's in a controlled environment. Uh I was doing a technique called GFRC, so glass fiber reinforced concrete. Um, it's usually poured upside down in a mold on casting tables. So you can get really creative with your forming techniques. So learned how to do like fabric form stuff and where you can get really cool organic shapes, and then your sinks are really like one of a kind. You know, some molds that I made are destroyed after, you know, like as you're demolding. So they're truly like one of a kind pieces of art. And so that kind of it was a time during kind of recession that I was trying to get this going. Uh people were tight with money, and yeah, so it was tricky because people were like, oh, it's concrete, you know, like concrete's cheap. You know, why are you charging me as much or more than you know, granite or whatever other solid surface? And the answer is, you know, it's it's handcrafted, you know, it's it's unique. And so, anyways, I tried that for a while, it didn't work out, but yeah, then I got into kind of the general contracting side with my father as I went back to school to get my architecture degree.

Why Architecture School Won

Lyssia Katan 6:21

There's many things here. So, first of all, um, I feel like I'm getting an immersive experience here because as I told you before we started recording, I have a uh concrete truck just pulled up in front of my house for my neighbors. So very much getting the immersive experience. But I also know exactly what you mean because we work with concrete or cement tiles. So it's it's also that mold is made. And um, and concrete is an interesting, interesting product. There's there's a lot of uses for it. Uh, sometimes it's very surprising how how it's used. Like you said, it's put into uh casts. But what made you want to go to architecture school once like since you were already in the trade?

Dustin Ence 7:02

Yeah, so at the time I wasn't even in the construction industry. I mean, kind of. I was building uh shooting ranges all over the country, uh, usually for military or uh police academies or whatever. We were doing the ballistics for it. Um, I had a family, I was working away from home. It was, you know, living out of a suitcase, living in hotels, being gone for weeks on end. And one day I was just like, this sucks. I like, I want to be home. I I want to, you know, I'm missing time with my family. So I mean, the industry was something that I was very familiar with, and kind of through my younger years, I was very much into kind of the artistic side of things. Um, I I was really into graphic design, I was uh into ceramics in high school, and so just kind of leaned towards that more artistic side of things. And I actually started out my college classes going on an engineering path, and this was something like, oh, you know, like this is just safe and simple. And so yeah, my my early years in college were definitely engineer focused. And my first day of calculus two, I came home and I literally was sick to my stomach. Like I couldn't even open the book to do the homework because I just went through calculus one and it was literally the hardest class I'd ever taken. And so I just, yeah, I had a hard pivot point at that time and changed my focus from engineering to architecture. So a lot of my math classes switched to art classes, and that was like right down my lane, and probably the best decision I've ever made.

Lyssia Katan 9:14

It's funny how numbers in some people's mind, they just click. That's so easy. And art is very difficult for them. And for some people, the art is like a walk in the park, but the numbers are just so not not their not their area. Uh and I I very much am in the same space as you. I'm I'm much more creative. Give me an art class any day of the year, but when it comes to calculus, I'd rather have someone else do it. So I feel you.

Dustin Ence 9:41

Yeah, I mean, I I mean, I I based the class, like calc one, like I got very good grades. Um it's just, you know, I feel like I'm smart enough to do it, but it's just not something I loved. Um like even physics class like is all math, and I hated math classes, but I loved physics. Like, still to this day, I'm fascinated by physics. And so I don't I think it's the context of things, like numbers can be boring, and it's funny, a lot of people are like, Oh, you're you're doing architecture, like you must be good at math. And it's like I there's some disconnect there because like architects don't really do any math calculations other than like oh okay, we need to divide the space evenly or something like that. But that's that's about the extent of math that I use.

Designing With Construction In Mind

Lyssia Katan 10:40

There's a difference between can do it and prefers to do it or likes to do it, right? You do it when you have to, we all do, but like, do we want to if we don't have to? You know, there's other professions. How does your background in architecture and the artistry help you today when you're in a design build company? Like you understand both sides. How does that help you?

Dustin Ence 11:06

Yeah, so early in design, a lot of times I'm thinking about how it's constructed. And I don't think that most architectural designers, that's forefront for them. Um so yeah, I'm I'm thinking about how is it going to be framed? How you know, how are these, how systems come together? Because it's also something that I really enjoy doing. If it's a design that um is pushing the envelope a little bit, I'm understanding that like this also has to be built somehow. And so in the back of my mind, I've kind of, you know, I'm I'm running through scenarios on how this can be built. And I've got the hands-on experience where I can do mock-ups, I can test things out before I hand it off to a sub and show him, like, hey, this is what I've created. So yeah, I think that the trade experience is massive for me, just understanding how materials come together, um, where potential issues might arise. And then just making the home functional. I mean, a lot of the houses that we build here in the desert, they have little to no attic space, they're all flat roof. Um, so we have very minimal um roof structures. A lot of the times I'm using TJIs, which you can't punch HVAC systems through TJIs. You either have to do a drop um or go underground. And so usually when I'm designing something, before I even get to the construction bidding phase, I already know kind of which systems I'm going to be using in the house, whether it's forced air that's going underground, whether it is forced air and we have some space to run it overhead, or using like ducted mini splits that we can you can hide, you know, multiple units uh in pretty shallow spaces, and then just doing smaller runs to each room that needs supply.

Lyssia Katan 13:25

And for our listeners who are not in in the construction space, what is a TGAI?

What Homebuilding Gets Wrong

Dustin Ence 13:29

A TJI. I don't know what it stands for, but it's uh it's a manufactured joist. So it's kind of got OSB uh as like a uh structural member, and then it's got a top and bottom cord on it, but it's it's pretty solid, so it's got punch out like pre-punch out holes in it where you can run wiring and stuff through it, but you really can't cut like these massive holes in it. So trusses have webs um and openings through them, they're not solid, and so trusses you can typically run mechanical uh ducting whatever through them pretty easily. Um, but TJIs are solid, so you can't really do that.

Lyssia Katan 14:20

I mean, speaking about people who are not in the industry at all, what's something that someone who's not in the um industry completely misunderstands about building homes?

Dustin Ence 14:32

How complex it really is, to be honest. Um on a single home, it could involve, you know, anywhere from 50 to 80 different subcontractors and supply suppliers. And you know, one small decision can ripple through so many different people, different trades. So from the outside, it can look very simple, but there's a huge amount of coordination behind the scenes that people probably don't really understand or get a full like grasp of all of those intricacies.

Lyssia Katan 15:11

I can be one of those people because as I'm watching them build the house across the street from me, it just looks like they're just putting down bricks, you know. But where how are they looking? Are they looking at a piece of paper and they all say, these are this is where we put the bricks, like, or this is how we lay the concrete? It just like I feel like every time I look over, a new part is added. How what's like kind of the back end behind that? If you can give us like a really quick synopsis, what are these workers looking at when they're putting down things?

Dustin Ence 15:40

When you're talking about building homes or the construction industry, there's such a massive range of types of homes. There's production homes that are literally copy and paste. So usually it's the same subs that are working on all of those homes. They figure it out on the first one, and then it's just duplicate, duplicate, duplicate. Those are not the types of homes that I enjoy building. All of the houses that I build are completely unique. And so, you know, it's just about terminations and how materials come together. And, you know, a lot of the times it's windows that are wall to wall and floor to ceiling. And you've got a steel beam ahead overhead, and you've got concrete below, and you've got alignments in walls that cannot change. And so yeah, a lot of it is just everything starting from the concrete and the foundation and the steel work can literally ripple through. Like if one thing gets put in the wrong place, it can affect so many things down the road.

Lyssia Katan 16:52

How do they know? Like they're just like they all have a plan, like they're looking at a piece of paper or they're looking at the blueprint, or there's just someone saying, This is where it goes, lay down these bricks.

Dustin Ence 17:02

Again, there's like a massive uh range of plan plans that get produced. So in some areas, you know, it's just a drafts person that's designed this house and drawn it and given it to an engineer, and then it's handed over to a general contractor, and it's that contractor's job to bring all of those subcontractors together, and the house is getting built according to plan. Sometimes, you know, half of those decisions aren't on the plan. And so the contractors literally, you know, if there's not an interior designer involved, they're going to the homeowner and hey, what do you want here? What's this finish? What's that? You know, and they're coordinating all of those different things. If there is an interior designer involved, then it's their job to kind of coordinate selections and details. For an example, like a shower. Like a shower can be so simple, or it can have a hundred different decisions in it. From like the niche size to the edging. Is it mitered? Is it have Schluter? Where are the valves? What height are the valves? Um, what's the tile? What's the pattern? What's the grout size? What's the grout color? What's the door? Like, there are so many decisions. And so I think a lot of times in construction, like those details aren't necessarily coordinated. And so it's kind of like whatever the subcontractor decided to do in that scenario. But the types of homes that I build, like every detail matters. And so if it's not an interior designer, then it's the general contractor having to make those decisions or the homeowner. So I think having a team, you know, all the way through is important. So I do the architectural design myself. Like I'm literally drawing the plans. I sometimes like outsource some of the drafting stuff, but a lot of the times I don't. So I'm I'm doing the design development, the conceptual design, the construction documents, all of that. And then I prefer to have an interior designer involved because I don't get into all of the details and the finishes and the selections. Um, I can, you know, and I have opinions that I'll share, but a lot of the times I don't get that deeply involved. But if there is an interior designer involved, I it falls back on me to make sure that their designs or specifications are, you know, seen all the way through and that they it turns out like it was designed to be.

Lyssia Katan 20:10

It's interesting to hear your perspective because we see, I mean, in the tile industry, we see the other perspective. The designer is specifying the tile, but then the contractor is the one calling us up and purchasing the tile and needing over it. And and so there's so much, we only see two points, right? Maybe sometimes the architect, but most of the time interior designer, whereas there's so much so many moving parts on the back end of all the details. So it's always nice talking to someone who can kind of give me a glimpse of what the back end looks like. Yeah. And do you find that it's easier because you have control over not only the architecture but the design, that things are just so much more seamless and there's less there's less room for error?

Dustin Ence 20:55

Uh yeah, absolutely. Um just down to like window placement, you know, like is the window pushed to the inside of the wall? Is it pushed to the outside of the wall? What's you know, how does the drywall terminate against the window? Is there a corner piece or whatever? Is there for drywall that's around the window, or is the adjacent wall running right into the frame? And then, you know, a lot of windows nowadays, the frames are tiny, you know, that you have like three-quarters of an inch to hit into that window. And, you know, if you're too far one way or the other, it it looks wrong. And maybe I don't know, 80% of people wouldn't notice those details, but that's what I notice. And I think you know, that's where good design and even better construction um either like hits the mark or Doesn't um just those termination points.

Letting The Landscape Lead

Lyssia Katan 22:04

I understand. And you've because you create a lot of very custom homes, as you mentioned, and you do it in Utah, and you also said that um architecture should take cues from the landscape. What does that actually look like in practice when you're designing a home?

Dustin Ence 22:22

Not in every single scenario, but you know, there's certain communities where that's at the forefront. You know, the home should feel like it belongs where it's sitting. It's not a pre-designed house, and then you're just how can we fit it on this land? You know, there's a lot of developments that are you know just leveled completely. Um there's not an ounce of natural topography or landscape left, you know. So in those instances, you can kind of do what you want with the architecture. You're you've got it just a flat building pad that you can do whatever you want with. But, you know, it should take cues from the landscape, in my opinion, when the opportunity presents itself in southern Utah, especially, you know, the landscape is incredibly powerful. We've got red rocks, we've got, you know, these beautiful desert colors, massive skies. So instead of forcing the design onto the land, you know, I try to let the site guide some of the decisions along the way. So that might be the orientation towards views, it might be the roof lines, um, the height of the house compared to the natural topography materials that relate to the surrounding. And there's just some people that get it and some people that just don't care, you know. So I work in a lot of developments where they do care, and they're very strict about materials and colors and heights and topography and all of those things considered. Landscape is huge. Some people just do what they want and what they think is cool, and you know, they put palm trees everywhere, and it's like, okay, well, palm trees are great. Um, you know, they're beautiful, but palm trees don't grow here naturally. Like it should be cactus and it should be, you know, some of these natural uh plants. And so, anyways, that's the goal is really to just make the house feel like it's connected to the landscape instead of competing with it.

Lyssia Katan 24:50

And instead of making it look like you wish the house was somewhere else, right? Like if if you have palm trees and you're in the middle of the desert, like you're either California or Florida, like what are you doing? I saw a video uh on your page that I thought was so cool. It was basically you uh helping pour the concrete, and there are these beautiful red rocks, and you're almost like pouring into a canal around it. And and I thought it was so cool because like you're working around the natural landscape. When you are stepping onto a project or land for the first time, what's the first thing you're paying attention to?

When Homes Look Good But Fail

Dustin Ence 25:27

Usually views. Um, views, orientation. We're in a desert, so we're you know, it's very hot here. We're uh definitely a uh high cooling, you know, like we have to think about keeping the house cool much more than how are we going to heat the home. And so definitely just the travel of the sun. So that kind of relates to deeper cantilevers on the south and west sides, uh, not as deep on the north. Yeah, I'm also looking at kind of privacy, you know, where the neighbors are located, where's the street located, where you want that privacy, where it can be a little bit more transparent, the slope of the topography, yeah, all of those things kind of impact the home. And so usually when I start a design, I go out and I sit on the lot and I just, you know, I'm there for an hour and I'm just picking up on cues, you know, like, okay, where's sound coming from? How can we design around that? Yeah. I would say views are probably the dominant thing because art surrounding area is like literally artwork in other places, like hanging on the wall, and it's it's literally out our our windows. And so that's usually probably the first thing, and then kind of orientation and and sun path.

Lyssia Katan 27:03

It's funny you say that because I do have artwork of of somewhere in Utah on my wall. In your opinion, what separates a house that looks good from a house that feels good?

Dustin Ence 27:15

I would say function and proportions. There's a lot of homes in southern Utah that you would see in like a parade of homes, like the St. George area parade of homes is actually one of like the most popular in the country, which is kind of wild. Like we're a fairly small community, and so to be ranked that high is is pretty amazing. But some of the homes in the parade, they're just massive. You know, we're talking like 10, 15,000 square feet, and the proportions are just massive. And to me, like I walk in those homes and it just doesn't feel personal, it doesn't feel cozy, like it just it feels just just so vast, and you know, it's it's hard to fill that space with furniture or even people, like it just fills over the top, and so yeah, I think I think function gets skewed a little bit in those scenarios, like you're having to walk a hundred feet to get to a different room, um, and then just the proportions of it, yeah. So those houses might photograph beautifully, but you know, it could be a little bit awkward if if they're poorly sized or oversized or whatever. I think that uh homes that feel good usually have thoughtful circulation, they've got comfortable room proportions and natural light. I think natural light is probably one of my favorite materials, and it's funny because it's not really a material, but I feel like it is the most impactful material um or concept. I really don't know like how to categorize that, but yeah, natural light is massive. I love when like you don't have to turn a light on until like the sun literally goes down.

Lyssia Katan 29:35

Going back to your uh point about these vast homes, we've all had those times where we go on to Zillow. I do it all the time, look at the most expensive house in the area, and like I've looked at them and they are just exhausting. Like you're tired going from the kitchen to the bedroom. And I'm like, how do you live in this space, let alone keep it clean, let alone even just exist? And and what you're saying is so true. It photographs great. A beautiful spiral staircase looks amazing, but going up and down those stairs multiple times a day is is exhausting.

Designing For Natural Light

Dustin Ence 30:06

Yeah. Yep, absolutely.

Lyssia Katan 30:08

Again, we've seen houses that have like almost no sunlight, but they're beautiful, right? They're shown to be beautiful. How do you incorporate natural light? Because it is something that I find is very important. Clearly, we're on the same page. And also a lot of the neuroscientists we've had on the show say natural light is so important. How do you incorporate that? Do you just put it at the forefront and say, we start with the light and everything goes, everything else we can work around?

Dustin Ence 30:34

Windows, like it's pretty easy where we're at. Like the views are incredible. So you're wanting to like incorporate every view that you can. And so big windows let in a lot of light. And it can be a double-edged sword sometimes, because sometimes the views to the west, and sometimes you want those windows to be massive, and so you know, it's not really like the most efficient place to put windows, and you know, you can do some things to offset that. You can, you know, put a few more tons of air in the space, you can plan for drapes or shades, or um, there's a lot of like window film materials that you can use, so and overhangs, you know, trying to keep the sun off of those windows as long as possible, but um skylights, clear story windows. I love clear story windows. So for those that don't know what a clear story window is, it's basically a window that's up high between two different roof lines. So you have a lower roof, and then you've got a row of windows. They're typically you know thin, anywhere from uh even down to a foot up to like three or four feet, depending on kind of the scale that you're looking for. But you get such a great like indirect light from those, um, where they're between the two roof lines, so the sun will reflect off the top of the bottom roof and then come through the window and lights up the ceiling, um, the higher ceiling. And so that indirect light is is beautiful and probably one of my favorite um design concepts.

Lyssia Katan 32:33

I'm sure they're beautiful. I've seen them used before, and it's always I always feel like the lights on, and I'm looking around, and it's not, it's just the the reflection.

Dustin Ence 32:42

Yeah, and it's really cool. You can I don't know if you can see it in this uh home behind me. This one up here, so it it almost looks like that upper roof is just floating up there, and so I don't know, in architecture, like heavy things should be grounded and light things should feel light, and they should visually be visually be light. And so I love for those roofs to be very thin above a clear story, and then you just have that light and you can see through there, and so it almost looks like that roof is just up there floating. So I'm always kind of pointing out things when people do like heavy stone that's like floating up above, it's just it goes against like our natural thought process, or like subconsciously it does something to us, and you know, if that's intentional, then that's great. You know, there's been some really cool designs where there's you know a rock that's floating, this mass, and you're you know, and and that's very intentional, but you know, there's some homes that I drive past all the time and and it's like a patio roof, and they've they've they've just put stone on this floating patio roof, and it just it just makes you uncomfortable for whatever reason.

Honest Materials And Clean Details

Lyssia Katan 34:10

So no, I mean it's very much in line with what we talk about on this podcast because there are things that we don't realize make us uncomfortable, and like even certain facades, there are studies where um one of our guests, he's a professor and he studies like the facades and they just give us anxiety and we don't even know why. They look cool, but they just do something to us. So it's nice to hear that that you take these things into consideration. And and my next question was what are some mistakes that you see? So this kind of brings us into that like things that are not natural. What other mistakes do you see?

Dustin Ence 34:47

Materials and termination points, like I hate to see whatever the material is. It's usually an accent material, it's not the majority of the exterior material. Uh, so it's usually like stone or something, but it's just on one wall. Like the wall, the massing turns or whatever it does, but you're just seeing the end. You're seeing that stone not carry around the corner. Usually it's like changing materials on an outside corner where materials should change on an inside corner. It should always run into something. And so I think that happens a lot. Another thing that really just makes me uneasy is materials that are are trying to be something else. There's uh like a wood look metal, it's supposed to look like wood and it's like thin metal. And so I'm really about honest materials. If it's concrete, just make it look like concrete. Concrete is beautiful. If it's stone, just just pay the extra and get real stone. If it's metal, then just keep it metal. Like metal is also beautiful. If it's steel, like I love just mill scale on steel, like it is beautiful. I've even like had steel sheets, like let's let them sit outside and get weathered first, and like create these organic shapes, like as water pools on it and then evaporates, it creates these like really beautiful shapes and lines that are super subtle. But let's keep that. Like, let's just put a clear coat over the top of it and let the material be what it is, and not you know, don't make concrete look like rock, don't make wood or tile look like wood, don't make metal look like wood. So I think that's I think that's where a lot of people go wrong and subconsciously or consciously, like that does something to us psychologically. Like for me, it it makes it feel cheap, look cheap, look like they were just cutting corners or whatever. And you know, there's there's instances where it's just about affordability, right? I'm not talking those homes. I'm talking high-end custom homes, or even not high-end, but just a custom home should be thoughtful and honest with its materials all the way through.

Lyssia Katan 37:38

I second that because I, well, in the tile industry, I can't tell you the amount of porcelains I've seen that look like marble, they look like wood, and they're made to have the look of that beautiful material, but without the like effort it takes, I would say, to maintain a marble or to maintain a hardwood. And it just cheapens it every single time. And most of the time, that's what it's for. They want the marble look with the porcelain price tag or the linoleum price tag, and it just it cheapens it. Even when like you touch it, you don't get that like cool marble feeling. It just feels like nothing. So I I very much second that, especially with furniture. Furniture that looks like wood but is actually like particle board, I think that's what it's called. It's like wood board and it just like peels off. It's just it does something to us and it's it's proven. There are psychological studies. I mean, we've like I said, we had a bunch of neuroscientists talking about this, but it does something to us and it takes away from the authenticity of that home. And like you said, it cheapens it.

Dustin Ence 38:46

Yeah, I think uh another thing that people get wrong a lot of the times is keeping the material consistent with the mass. So again, on this this home right here above me is the you can see the massing. The material stays with the massing, whether it's inside or outside the house. And psychologically, I think what that does is it's easier for our brains to process. And so we're not overwhelmed with all of these different materials and colors and in one single mass. If the mass is the same all the way through, it's very easy to understand that. Even when there's like repetition or arches, like it might be a lot of detail, but when there is that repetition, our brains can like process that very easily. And so it feels comfortable to us.

Homeowner Choices That Cause Problems

Lyssia Katan 39:51

And also the fact that I'm I'm looking at them now and they match the landscape. And we spoke about that, but you're not trying to build like Greek architecture in the middle of the desert in Utah because it just doesn't, it doesn't make sense. It's confusing. So the fact that the colors are it's very earthy, it's very natural, fits in with the landscape, which I think adds value and makes it easier on the eyes. What's a decision that homeowners make during the design process that actually ends up causing really big problems down the line?

Dustin Ence 40:25

I would say major changes too late. When significant changes happen after construction has started, uh, can affect structure, it can affect mechanical systems and the budget, like all in the same swipe. So I think more decisions that can be made ahead of time or during the design process and thoughtfully, the smoother the whole process will go.

Lyssia Katan 40:55

That's a really good point. And so when someone is starting to renovate their home and they want to make sure everything is planned ahead of time, which three rooms would you tell them you gotta focus on these? Make sure you get these right?

Dustin Ence 41:08

I would say the kitchen, the living space or the common space, and the primary bedroom bathroom. That's where I mean, that's where the person that purchased the home or owns the home, like that's where they're gonna spend most of their time. And like if you're paying for it, like those spaces should be the most intentional. They should be the most comfortable that that's where you should spend your money. And then like there's some spaces where when you have guests and you, you know, like the kitchen and the the living area are gonna be where your guests kind of spend the most time, and then a powder bath, like powder baths are kind of that that space that you can go all out, like this is where you're kind of showing off a little bit, and it's it's a place where your guests go and they're alone and it's quiet, and they're you know, just sitting there for a moment, and so they're they're looking around. So, like your details and your you know, like your finishes and your materials, like that's where you should pay some attention.

Materials Making A Comeback

Lyssia Katan 42:30

I'm laughing because that's what I've done at my friend's house is I'm always admiring their powder bats, like their their powder bathrooms. Uh it's just the cute little details and my little candles and the wallpaper or tile. And I never would have put that together if you didn't just point it out to me. What's a building detail or material that you are most excited about right now?

Dustin Ence 42:53

Building material or detail. I absolutely love breeze block. And in construction on a project that will be the first. Well, I did a small like renovation for a local restaurant, and we use some breeze block. But this is the first home that I'll be um using breeze block, and I'm using it as kind of courtyard walls in front of the house, but there's just so many styles, and there's something about like a screen wall that just adds so much character, and and it's so cool because you can like adjust the privacy with just like the block selection because some you know there's a percentage of openness to different designs of breeze block, and so yeah, that's I'm super pumped about this upcoming project to use some breeze block on. I've got another project that I'm working on where we're doing like a gapped brick, it's actually gonna be a Paper, but we'll do like it, we'll do it gapped so it it creates a screen wall, and so I'm really excited about that as well. One more thing is kind of another blast from the past, but glass block. It's kind of also one of these things, like using it more in a contemporary style, where you know maybe it's floor to ceiling instead of just like an opening in a shower or something, but a little bit different proportions, and they have like really cool new styles of glass block and transparency. So again, you can kind of play with that the amount of privacy or not. Got an upcoming project that we're also using glass block on, and I think it is making a comeback.

Lyssia Katan 44:49

I hope so because I um my grandmother's house used to have glass blocks, and they were my favorite. They're so fun, you can't really see through them, but the light gets through them, and it's it's just not used anymore. So please bring it back. I would really I would really like to see more of those.

Dustin Ence 45:05

And they have cool, uh, I haven't used it yet, don't have a project uh planning to use it yet, but glass brick.

Lyssia Katan 45:14

Ooh, okay.

Dustin Ence 45:15

So similar to glass blocks, but they're put together like a brick wall would be. And so a little bit different proportions, a little bit different quality of light transmission. But yeah, I I've seen some projects and it's really cool.

Trends People May Regret

Lyssia Katan 45:33

I love when we can, like you said, let materials be those materials. We're not turning the glass into a mosaic, we're keeping it glass and we're letting the light in. Is there something in the industry right now that you that you see happening that you really think people are gonna regret in the next 10 years?

Dustin Ence 45:49

Just trendy stuff. I can't think of a specific. Um, but for me, like one of the rules that I like to go by is if there's something that it's like you don't think about it, it's just this is what you do in this scenario. No questions asked. That's when you should be thinking, like, maybe we maybe we should be doing something else. Can lights are one thing that I'm kind of struggling with lately for the last 10 years or more. It's just like, oh yeah, this room needs a grid of six by six can lights, and you don't think about it. It's just like, okay, this is the layout. And so I'm trying to be better in my electrical plans with minimizing the amount of like can lights. I'm also starting to look into smaller lights, mud in lights, some trimless. Also, like the technology of lighting is getting better, and so you can get smaller lights that put off just as much light. And honestly, you don't need a whole lot of light to navigate through a space. In my home, like I rarely use my can lights. I've got all of my accent lighting I turn on every night. If I turn on my cans, like they're dimmed all the way down. And so, you know, some people probably feel different, but that's kind of one thing that I feel like people just are doing too much.

Lyssia Katan 47:35

I saw a video just recently of someone turning on like their overhead lights versus just having their like accent lights, and it changes the mood so quickly. It's like nice, moody, romantic to suddenly like lights in your face, and it's you know, it depends on how we're using the space, but it really affects you.

Dustin Ence 47:54

Yeah, absolutely.

Lyssia Katan 47:55

Is there a space in your life that changed you or the way that you look at spaces today?

A Space That Changed Everything

Dustin Ence 48:02

A hundred percent. Yeah. So Pelly S in West. I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right, but Frank Lloyd Wright's Winter Home in Scottsdale, Arizona. I visited that home about 15 years ago. This was before I even got into architecture. I was actually down there doing some training with a guy doing some precast concrete stuff. So it wasn't even really on my radar. I didn't even know that it was down there. And the guy that I was working with is like, hey, have you ever been to Frank Ludwright's house here? He was like, No, he's like, you've gotta go. So I went and was just blown away. Like, it just makes you feel something, and I think that's the most important thing about architecture is like it should be provoking, like it should make you feel a certain way and not anxious, right? Like it should make you feel calm, it should, it should be inviting, it should be cozy. But yeah, that house, I mean, talk about like designed into the landscape. Like this place, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but Frank Lloyd Wright was saying, like, there's there's a corner of the property that's kind of in front of looks down towards like the Phoenix Valley. And it's it's kind of he said it was the bow of his ship, and like the desert landscape was like his coral reef. And I don't know, everything about that project I fell in love with. I mean, the the massing, he has a well, like they didn't have air conditioning back then, so there's a pond that's well water that's right on one side of his workspace, it was his studio space, and like everything opened up, all the windows opened up, and he knew the wind patterns. So as the wind came from the valley up towards the mountains, it would roll over that pond and then be pulled through his workspace. And it was like air conditioning in the 40s, like just incredible architecture, and that really stuck with me. And, you know, he's obviously a huge inspiration to so many different architects and for good reason.

The Future Of Building Tech

Lyssia Katan 50:40

Yeah, certainly. And and also it it feels like technology has almost made us lazy, right? He didn't have air conditioning, he's not like we'll just pop a vent over here and you know, I'll be fine while I'm working. He actually had to study the wind patterns and see how things move. It's it shows you how things, the way they were done and the thought that went into that, of course, he's an inspiration to us all. Very cool. So, looking ahead, what is something about the way we design or build homes that you think is going to change dramatically, right? It's changed since the 40s to today. What do you think is going to change dramatically moving forward?

Dustin Ence 51:18

Uh, a couple things. So, some design technology for sure. I have in the past messed around with some augmented reality stuff. Cool. Such a cool experience. So I designed all of my homes in 3D software. So you have a 3D model, and this was through Microsoft HoloLens and Visual Live, I think was the software, but you could take your digital 3D model and go out to the site and place your digital model at full scale on the property, and you could walk through the space, and you could see exactly what your views are going to be. And so, like, I'm walking through the primary bathroom and like the window, and it's like, ooh, that window needs to be bigger because we're I'm cutting off the top of the mountain, the the sky, the ridge where it meets the sky. And you know, I I probably could have changed that in construction, but you know, then that can throw wrenches in things. But I saw this from the jump, you know, like, okay, very easy. Go back to my computer, and we need to make this window taller and bigger. And so now, like, you're standing there looking through the shower out this window, and it's it's positioned perfectly on the skyline of this um mountain. So I think technology is gonna be one thing. So HoloLens and Visual Live, I don't think, are a thing anymore. I do have the Apple Vision Pro, which is another kind of AR um platform. And I actually have a meeting after this with a software company out of Australia uh in Viz or something like that. But they are kind of doing the same thing, and what's cool about it is you can have that 3D model at any scale, so you can put it like on your desktop in augmented reality and like kind of like see it and walk around it and look through it, or you can put it at one-to-one scale and literally walk through the space. So I think that will will change things a lot. 3D printed houses. Like, I think there's something really cool about that, especially when you let the process and like that technique show through, like let it be honest. So you're like, let's leave that. Like, don't cover it up, don't plaster it smooth, like leave the lines and let it be what it is. Like, I think that might really impact the construction industry. I mean, I don't think that every home is gonna be like 3D printed, but it can help maybe with some affordability. I'm sure there's a lot of kinks to work out. I'm sure the the hardware, the this, the tools needed for it, you know, are probably really expensive right now and might come down in the future, but that's a potential that might change the industry.

Lyssia Katan 54:51

So cool. So cool. Like the direction we're going is is fascinating. I mean, some people are pessimistic about it. I I'm like you, I'm I'm quite optimistic. Like, how cool that we have this technology. Think of if Frank Lloyd Wright had the ability to 3D print a home, like imagine what he would have built.

Dustin Ence 55:10

Yeah, absolutely.

Keep It Simple And True

Lyssia Katan 55:12

So, Dustin, if if someone listening was to take one thing away from this podcast, what would you want it to be?

Dustin Ence 55:18

I would say honesty and materials. And I would say keeping things simple, allowing our brains subconsciously to fully understand it very quickly and not be overwhelmed by all of the little things.

Lyssia Katan 55:39

You think sometimes we have a tendency to overcomplicate things?

Dustin Ence 55:43

100%. Yeah. Some people are like, oh, we have there's some space right here. Like, I think, you know, what can we do here? What can we add here? And it's like, we don't, you don't, every little place you look doesn't have to have something. Like sometimes your eye needs like a place to rest. Same thing with art, you know, they they talk about kind of the way you look at art, and good art like kind of guides your eye through it and has resting points. I think architecture should do the same thing.

Lyssia Katan 56:17

That's fantastic and such a great point. Dustin, thank you so much for first of all, your wisdom and sharing it with us today, but also for creating these beautiful pieces of art in Utah. I hope to one day be able to get to see them. Well uh next time I'm in Utah, but it's just you're you're really creating art that's gonna be here. And maybe a hundred years from now, someone's gonna be talking about your work of these beautiful houses that are still gonna be there. They're gonna hopefully outlive us all. And you're really honoring the landscape. And I think it's really beautiful and so important. So thank you for what you do and thank you so much for your time and for teaching us all these new things.

Dustin Ence 56:58

Absolutely. I had a great time. Thank you for having me.

Closing And Listener Call To Action

Lyssia Katan 57:01

Likewise. Thank you, Dustin. Thank you so much for spending this time with me on Room2Think. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to follow the show, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who you think would really appreciate a more thoughtful approach to their space. You can find more Design Meets Psychology insights on social, in our community, and definitely in upcoming episodes so you can build a better life by design. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you next time.