The Secret to Timeless Design

Here’s the quiet truth about good design: the best rooms are edited, not stuffed. We sit down with designer Molly Torres Portnoff of Date Interiors to unpack how restraint, space planning, and material choices shape the way a home actually feels day to day. Molly’s path from fashion merchandising to interiors sharpened her editor’s eye, and she brings that focus to every project—prioritizing proportion, texture, and longevity over trends.

We dig into the subtle levers that calm the nervous system: fewer heroes, more visual rest, and a clear hierarchy so the eye knows where to land. Molly explains why flow beats decor every time and how her tiny Manhattan studio became a crash course in zoning a single room for sleep, work, dining, and display. For open-plan homes, she shares smart ways to carve zones with millwork, freestanding storage, layered rugs, and lighting—without closing anything off.

If trend fatigue has you second-guessing your taste, you’ll learn how to de-influence your algorithm and build spaces that stand up to time. We talk color courage and practical testing—large samples, multiple walls, changing light—plus the case for mixing patina-rich materials with steadier finishes. Tile lovers, don’t miss the grout segment: why a great tile can be sunk by the wrong grout and how to insist on real sample boards to get it right.

You’ll walk away with tools you can use today: painter’s tape mockups to fix flow, sample strategies that save money, and a timeless design mindset that puts how you feel first. Join us to rethink your rooms with intention, edit with confidence, and create a home that looks like you and lives like you. If this conversation resonated, subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review so more people can build a better life by design.

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Transcript

Why Restraint Shapes How Rooms Feel

Molly Torres Portnof 0:00

In a physical space, I feel that it's almost as, if not more important, what isn't there rather than what is.

Lyssia Katan 0:06

Was there an experience you had that led you to doing this specifically?

Molly Torres Portnof 0:11

I left a job in perfect fashion to pursue maturity design. My biggest nightmare in life is having the perfect tile looks amazing. And then the wrong grout, the wrong grout can ruin ruin the tile, ruin the space a thousand percent. Some of these trends like trends that come and go, they're not necessarily trends that are just like popping up. They're things just like fashion. Everything old is new again.

Meet Molly Torres Portnoff & Philosophy

Lyssia Katan 0:37

So how do you make a space feel timeless? If your home does not feel as good as it looks, this episode is for you. Welcome to Room to Think. Today I'm sitting down with Molly Torres Portnoff, founder and principal designer of Day Interiors. And her work is all about creating spaces that actually feel good to live in. We talk about why some rooms instantly calm you and others don't. And usually it's not the big, obvious things, but the small choices you won't even realize you're making. There's also a ton of practical advice in this episode. Things you can try right away. So whether you're in the middle of a redesign or just want your space to feel better without having to start from scratch, this episode is for you. Let's get into it. Molly, thank you so much for being on the show. I'm so excited to have you here today. So excited to be here. Molly Torres Portnov is the founder and principal designer of Date Interiors, a studio known for creating warm, lived-in homes that balance restraint, personality, and longevity. With a background in fashion, Molly approaches interiors with an editor's eye, focusing on proportion, texture, and how spaces actually feel to live in over time. Welcome to Room to Think. Thank you. Such a nice intro. So, for listeners who may be new to your work, how do you usually describe what you do and what kind of homes you're trying to create for people? Good question.

Molly Torres Portnof 2:01

I think the biggest thing for me, always, no matter what type of project it is, because we had due residential, we also do commercial projects, is just making the space feel like my client. Meaning that when you walk into a home that's designed by us, but specifically when you're walking into a client's home, let's say you're a family member or a friend, I want that person to walk in and think, oh my God, this looks, this feels like you. That's our biggest thing. I think that there's so much attention right now on just the perfect room or the perfect home or the Pinterest this or the Pinterest that, or walking to Sherroom and being like, wrap it up. Let's just take everything in here. That is the antithesis of what we do. We want to make homes and spaces and offices feel collected over time and feel like they're the embodiment of our clients' personalities. So that's always my goal. And yeah, that's basically what we do.

From Fashion To Interiors

Lyssia Katan 2:51

Was there an experience you had that led you to doing this specifically? Like, did you have too much exposure to perfect homes and perfect spaces? Or what led you here?

Molly Torres Portnof 3:03

Well, interestingly, I am obviously I'm a creative person, but I'm a type A creative. So I feel like we're uh we're a league of our own in that I I am a perfectionist. I'm always like striving for perfection. But when I feel the calmest, when my nervous system regulates, is when I'm in a space that feels comfortable to me that isn't perfect. That's not picture perfect. It just feels like a space that feels like me, again, that is filled with things that have been collected over time. That's really when my brain goes to rest. So I started doing that for myself. And then I will probably get into this, but I left a job in corporate fashion to pursue material design just because I felt so strongly in that my mood and my energy and just me, myself, like I changed so much in a space that feels comfortable to me. And I just wanted to create that for other people as well. So that's really, I guess, the start of it for me.

Lyssia Katan 4:00

Well, you're a perfect guest to have on the show because that's exactly what we talk about. The things we don't like that impact our mood and our energy. But let's talk about what was your transition between fashion to design and what did you learn from fashion that you were able to take into design?

Molly Torres Portnof 4:16

Yeah, so um, I mean, I don't know how far back we want to go, but we can fashion wasn't like always something that I like if I really think back into childhood, physical space has always been a big thing for me, just in and feeling comfortable. And I remember saying this to a um one of my best friends' moms when we were, I think, in high school. I I just told her how I loved coming to their home because it just felt so nice. And it wasn't like it was this, you know, beautifully designed or decorated home, but I I felt so comfortable there in the physical space of their home. And I remember she was like so grateful that I said that and so happy. And but I really meant it. Like I just felt so nice when I was there and my room and just everything kind of led me to this. I feel like if I really look back, but and even in college, so I when I went into college, I went in as an undecided major, which I feel like a lot of people do. And I really just did not know what I wanted to do at all. And I remember calling my parents, I think after like maybe first semester or second semester or something. And I was like, I think I talked to my guidance counselor, we're thinking that I'm gonna um be a poli sci major with a minor in Spanish. And my parents were like, What are you talking about? You have never once said anything about political science or an interest in it. And I had been taking at that point Spanish since I was like five or six years old and could barely speak a lick of it. So they were like, I just don't think this is what your path is. And they were right, obviously. So I went to University of Delaware and hit a very strong fashion merchandising program. And that was just like a really big major that a lot of people actually went to the school specifically for. And I had some friends, I think, in a sorority who were in that major. And I just started looking into it and it just felt right to me, just because again, I am a creative person, but I always wanted to do something that was more like, I guess, business minded. So it felt like a really good blend of those two things. So I ended up being a fashion merchandising major with a minor in marketing and advertising. And that just was great for me because and I think that really like plays into my career now. Because again, whether it's for a commercial client and we're and we're doing their office space or even um a residential client, we're doing their home. I feel, like I said, that it should feel like them, like their personality should shine through within the interiors. And that I feel like has a lot to do with branding, you know, whether you're personally branding yourself or you're branding your business. So those things really helped, like learning those things really helped now, interestingly. But anyway, so at the end of school, I ended up getting this job with theory and helmet laying. I'm not sure if you're familiar with those brands, but it was a it was like an executive training program where myself along with I think five other people, we went in and we were able to, for I believe six months, just every month kind of rotate through different corporate jobs. So it was production and buying and sales and marketing. And I ended up really gravitating towards the marketing side of things. So that's where I ended up. But I wouldn't say it was like creatively fulfilled. I didn't even know I, you know, I was 22 years old. I had no idea what it means to be creatively fulfilled. I just had a job in New York City and I was living in the city with all my friends, which is something we had dreamed about since we were younger. So it all wasn't really about like my fulfillment or what I really wanted to do with the rest of my life. But our marketing team sat adjacent to the store design team. And that team was responsible for the architecture, the store design and build out, and how all the stores were um going to look for across North America for both Theory and Helmet Lang. And that just felt so interesting to me. Like I was always eavesdropping on their conversations. And it really just kind of made me think like every time I would walk into a store, a Theory or a Helmet Lang store, like, oh wow, like they did this, like they created this. And I was like listening to how they did it. And that really just became so much more interesting to me than what I was actually doing at the time during lunch breaks. I was also like rav, ravenously reading Amber Lewis's design blog, whatever this was, the early awesome or the teens. And that was like the best part of my day, listening to the store design team and reading this design blog. And I don't remember exactly how it happened, but someone who I worked with, she had a friend who worked in an interior design firm, a very high-end firm Coleman Kravis in the city. I asked her to like put me in touch. I think she could tell that I was like interested in design. And we met, and then I ended up leaving my job in fashion and becoming an intern for Kalman and Kravis, this uh design firm, and then eventually going back to school at FIT for design. So I really don't remember what the question was.

Learning Calm Through Space And Control

Lyssia Katan 9:04

I'll be honest. It's okay. The elements that you took from fashion were there certain things like fabrics or fabrics is a huge one, colors is a huge one too.

Molly Torres Portnof 9:15

But I think really the biggest thing that I took and still do take is restraint. In a physical space, I feel that it's almost as, if not more important, what isn't there rather than what is. And that really comes into play, especially on walls and for art. I just think it's so important to have some breathing room within a space to let other things be the hero or to shine or to feel completely come together when there's just so much everywhere. And I know maximalism is, you know, trendy right now. And I believe me, I love like a really coolly done maximalist room. But I really do feel like restraint. It's such an important component of design, both in fashion and in interiors as well. And that's something that I really, really learned from um my time in fashion was just that restraint and you know, colors and fabrics and textures and the physical feel of everything, that's so important too, because that just immediately impacts, you know, your your sensory, what you're touching and feeling. But I think what a lot of people don't take into account, and it's something that maybe can't even be taught or or or it probably can be, but it's just something people don't think about is the restraint of everything and how that is as important as the things that you feel within a space.

Lyssia Katan 10:32

That's that's a really good answer. And and often we think more is better, but it's really so much not the case. And as you start taking away things, you realize that they actually it's it's better to have less than it is so much. And I love maximalism too, trust me. But sometimes we can feel our brains are are overwhelmed in a space filled with things, even if they're beautifully organized.

Molly Torres Portnof 10:56

Yeah, and that can be a jumpstart to your creativity, right? When you walk into a space or a museum or a restaurant that just is filled with like a lot and your brain is just on overdrive, just constantly like, but the thing I notice for me is that I'm not able to focus. I'm not able to land on a space, and that means my brain is never stopping working and I'm not actually feeling calm. You know, there's two ways to look at it, right? Like I might have a client who um wants to do an office space, or even, you know, a dream client for me would be a restaurant that's always been a dream, but where that's the goal that you don't want people to necessarily feel like that they're resting. You want them to feel like they're alive, like all the time. And that's where maybe maximalism would come into play. But again, there's there's that level of restraint where you have to understand like you can't just do everything all at once all the time. There needs to be some soft places for your eye to land and rest.

Lyssia Katan 11:48

Was there a specific place that you in your life, past or present, that really changed you and helped you develop this mentality or this concept?

First Impressions: Feeling A Room

Molly Torres Portnof 11:57

Going back to college, I it was the first time that I ever been away from home. Um, I had a great time. I met amazing people. It was very fun, but I was definitely super anxious. And the way to qualm my anxiety was to control. I also just felt really out of control, right? Like I'm in a new place, I'm with new people, I'm trying to figure it out, all this stuff. Like it was just a lot of things that were out of my control and that type A personality kind of kicking in. I wanted to find anything to control. So, what I what could I control? My dorm room, like that was what I could control. And thankfully I had a roommate who I actually had throughout the entire four years of college who didn't care and just let me kind of do whatever I wanted. And I was able to control my physical space and have it look how I how I wanted to and have it be a place that I felt like was comfortable. So by the time it was like senior year, we were living in an apartment off campus, people would walk in. You know, we're having like keg parties and they're like, why does your apartment look so nice? Like it was almost like off-putting to them because they were like, Well, I don't understand what's going on here. But like that was my way to control a situation or to just try and create this space that felt like home away from home. So that was kind of like the first manifestation of this like design brain kind of in action. And then later on, a couple of years later, I had my first apartment with my then boyfriend, now husband in Manhattan. And it was this tiny little studio right next to the Empire State Building in uh Harold Square. And that was where I was really able to practice restraint because I knew that this studio had to have many functions, right? Like it was basically just one boxy room that needed to be bedroom area, it needed to have, you know, my husband and I both have like a lot of pretty things. So it needed to be able to display things, it had to have a sitting area, needed to have a place to eat. It just like had to have so many things. And that was like such a fun challenge for me, just to figure out how to make it feel both aesthetically pleasing and as functional as possible while also exercising restraint, right? Just because just because we have a lot of stuff doesn't mean a lot of stuff has to be out or displayed or grabbing your attention. And of course, and the big the best part of the studio apartment and why we actually wanted to rent it was just because it was so much natural light. We were on the 16th floor, huge, almost floor-to-ceiling windows. There was just so much gorgeous light that came in through that space. So that to me was like the design hero of the space was this light. So everything was kind of meant to serve that and to highlight that and to um just kind of mesh with that. So that that was really my first time exercising restraint and like feeling the well, we talked about this before, but Momberin, feeling the effects of it and how they were so positive for us. We lived in that studio program for three years, which is a long time to live in a studio with another human.

Lyssia Katan 14:53

Yeah, yeah, I I can imagine. And are there things that you learned about how a space feels in that tiny studio apartment that you still take to this day when you're working with bigger spaces?

Molly Torres Portnof 15:06

Yeah, I mean, obviously there was the the restraint of a lot of things, but it was also more for me about learning space planning. Like it was just the ultimate space planning gauntlet, right? Because this tiny box had to have so many functions. There was just so many different spaces within it. And it was like about how visually and physically creating separation without closing something off, like how does that work? How do you do that? And I just basically figured it out in real time through furniture and through placement of the furniture and through floor coverings like rubs and artwork, etc. Um, so yeah, so that was just like a trial by fire into space planning. And that was just such a huge learning lesson for me that I take to this day. Like, even if there's a huge house with multiple, multiple rooms, every room typically serves at least two functions, right? Like it's not, you know, even if it's like a library room, like there's still you need to have seating area and this and that. So it really was helpful in um in and me learning that outside of like in a practical way outside of school.

Lyssia Katan 16:14

And then were you in this apartment before you started your interior design program at FIT?

Molly Torres Portnof 16:20

Yes. So this was like everything kind of happened after we got into this apartment, which is when I left my job and um started interning at a design firm and then eventually went back to school at FIT. So I went through school in this apartment. The apartment is very special to me just because it was like the birthplace, it's the birthplace of my my name. Like it started uh my company is Date Interiors DEET is an acronym for designing a tiny empire. And that was like the handle that I chose on social media for essentially documenting this apartment and how it came to be, and then just like design in general, and it just kind of morphed into my business name.

Lyssia Katan 17:00

So today, when you walk into a space, what's the first thing you notice?

Molly Torres Portnof 17:04

Meaning like when I'm meeting with a client and just kind of like viewing their space or just any space.

Lyssia Katan 17:09

Any space. You walk into a restaurant, you walk into a hotel, what's the first thing you notice?

Molly Torres Portnof 17:13

Because I work in tile, so I look at the floor. I know this sounds crazy, but I I feel like I walk in and it's like I'm overwhelmed by a feeling. Like sometimes it's not even about what I'm looking at. Like it's not again, especially if it's a restaurant, like there's so much to look at. You know, there's walls and ceilings and I'm sure tile everywhere and flooring and everything, but it's more about just like a feeling. Like, do I feel good in that space? And if my if it's yes, it's just like then I'm kind of exploring like why? Like what is going on here that's making me feel comfortable and or excited or creative or whatever it is. And sometimes it's a floor, sometimes it's a ceiling, sometimes it's the mix of everything all together, sometimes it's the material. But obviously, a big aspect of this, especially living in New York, is architecture, right? Because like a lot of these spaces, well, not all of them, because there's a lot of new builds as well. So sometimes it really is just like a blank box of no architectural detail at all. And that that's something that you have to take into account too, right? Because it's like, how do we make this feel better? But sometimes it's just walking to a space and being like overwhelmed and amazed by just like how gorgeous the actual physical space is, the molding, the ceiling height, the original, you know, brass work or whatever it is. So I I usually just walk into a space curious. Like I'm not automatically like terminator cataloging everything, but I usually just walk in trying to feel something and being curious about why I'm feeling that way. It also obviously works on the flip side of why a space might feel negative. It's like you walk in, you're like, ah, and then just kind of exploring why. Why does this not feel great?

Lyssia Katan 18:45

And when you work with a client, do you start that way? Like, do you say, what do you want to feel in this room? Or how does that process come to be?

Process, Investment Guide, And Fit

Molly Torres Portnof 18:53

So typically a client will reach out through our website and they will give some details of the project, like whether it's a furnishing only project or if it's a you know construction project, a little bit about the scope, location, budget, timeline, those types of things. And they will reach out and we will typically shoot them back our investment guide, which is is something new for us, but it's it's so important. And I know a lot of other designers do this. But basically, it's a guide that explains, of course, in broad general detail, right? Because every project and every you know client is different, but just the monetary and time investment that most people don't know is about to happen in this guide. And it explains why everything's taking so long and is so much more expensive than you think, and what our process is in guiding them through this new kind of experience with like all these different trades, and sometimes architects and contractors, and sometimes even engineers, and like what what the process will essentially look like in broad terms and what it will cost and how much time it will take. So a client will, potential client will look at that. If that feels good to them, then we will schedule like a discovery call where that's really kind of like a vibe check for for me, honestly, is just you know, hearing them speak out loud, like for the things that they told us about their scope and their timeline and their budget and their family. And it's really just the first time I'm actually interacting with them and feeling feeling it out, which is so, so, so important because these projects, whether it is a furnishings-only project, and even if it's a, you know, just a small furnishings-only project, these projects take a long time. Like it's very rare for a project to take under 12 months. Sometimes it can, but generally that is what it's going to take. And if it's a construction project, we're talking years. So a relationship and us vibing together is so important. And then after that, we, you know, if everything feels good on both sides, then we schedule our in-person consultation, which is the first time that I'm, you know, before then I might receive pictures or a street easy or Zillow listing and be able to kind of like, you know, take a poke at what the space that the plans look like and what the actual space looks like in photos. But it's more important than anything for me to actually physically be in that space. To your point, when I'm walking in, that's the first, that's like my first introduction into the space, not only to the client themselves in person, but this their physical space. And that is so informative, just in so many different ways, because um, a photo typically can't capture the light and how that feels and the flow and how it really feels to flow through everything. And if the flow is working or if it's not, or it's an older home, the architect, the architectural details that are there and the things that I'm like, oh my God, we have to keep this, or um wow, there's probably something like much cooler hiding under there, or all these things that you really can only take in and feel and understand in person that happens at our initial consultation.

Lyssia Katan 21:51

And when you do work with these clients, and how do you separate what they genuinely love? And what they think they should have in their home based on social media or trends going on.

Molly Torres Portnof 22:06

Another important reason for them to read this investment guide before we we work together is just them understanding the time constraints, right? Because what they might love right now or what their algorithm is feeding them right now or what they've pinned right now is probably going to be different in a year, right? So that doesn't mean that that that all goes out the window because those are very informative things to know what the client is liking. But it's my job to figure out if it's something that's they're being pushed to like or if it's something they really, really like. Because a lot of times it's just something that's being pushed on them. And it works on me all the time. Like I am constantly having to de-influence myself from what is being shoved down my throat about what the new trend. And I'm, you know, I'm in all these articles writing about what the new trend for 2026 is or what's in or what's out. And to be very, very honest, that is not something that I'm focused on because it's it's ever changing and it's it's constantly evolving. And I love finding new things that I'm like, oh my God, like I need this, or this feels so cool, or I just need to, I need to try this in a project, or whatever it is. Like those things are exciting to me. And I love uh social media for that because it is showing you things that you probably just wouldn't like necessarily find on your own. And that is invaluable and so cool. But I have to constantly figure out like the difference between that and just something that's being shoved down my throat that I don't even really like, but my brain is just thinking that I like because I'm seeing it constantly. So I understand that it's not easy for clients to kind of de-influence themselves, but it's my job to start that process with them. And it's it's you know, it's a little bit like dating, right? Like, because when we start a project, we are just meeting each other for the first time. And I'm I'm doing my best through kickoff meetings and aesthetic design meetings before we even really start with the concept, just to not only get to know what they like, but get to know them as people. It's like an investigation that I don't want to feel that way. I don't want to feel like they're, you know, being interrogated. But it's so important for me to know like what their jobs are, what they do, what their hobbies are, what they do, what their downtime looks like, what makes them feel comfortable, excited, happy, creative, what they want their space to feel like. It's really just like me mining them for information and generally a lot of the times becoming, you know, very, very friendly with these people. I have a habit of becoming friends with my clients, which I don't necessarily know is the most professional or not, but it's really hard not to because we're spending so much time together and I'm getting to learn so much about them and then creating a space that makes them be the best version of them and feel the best version of them. So it's very intimate and I love that part, honestly. But yeah, I would say that discerning between what they actually like and what they are just being fed is tricky and something we're constantly evolving and changing too, because like every person's different. So it might be a harder process with some clients and then might be easier with others. I think it really comes down to trust, their trust in me. And that also isn't immediate and isn't super easy. Cause just as I am trying to figure out what they are like and what they need and what makes sense for them, they are figuring me out too, and figuring out like, can I trust this person? And the best projects are when they do right off the bat, because that just makes that just gives everybody so much more breathing room and gives everybody so much more license to just kind of like chill and just kind of like go into the process in a an easier way where they trust that all the questions I'm asking and all the, you know, the things that we're doing and the time that it's taking is for a purpose. Like my only concern is just creating the best possible space for them. And if they are trusting of that, everything typically works out. And if they're trusting of that, they typically listen to me when I say, Do you really like this? Or is it just because that's what your algorithm says that week? Like, why don't we explore this picture that you showed me that you liked five years ago and still like today? Because I feel like that is more true to what you actually like and want.

Lyssia Katan 26:13

Do you have any examples of this happening where uh you had a client say, you know, I really like this thing, and you know that three years later it's gonna be something that they absolutely hate and regret putting in their home.

Timeless Design Versus Fads

Molly Torres Portnof 26:24

I would say earlier in my career, so probably like 10 years ago, in one of my first office projects, I was working with a first-time client at that time. We later worked together multiple times after that. But at that time, I wasn't as knowledgeable about how to say no or say, I don't think that's a good idea. So it was more of me putting my ideas out there and the client being, you know, receiving them and wanting to move forward, but also having their own kind of ideas that we implemented, which generally I love because it's a more collaborative. But in this case, she really wanted this pink sectional for the office space. And I didn't have anything against it, but it just again, it was it was that height of millennial pink and it was everywhere. And it felt more like just because she thought she needed it rather than because she really wanted it. And I did say that, but it wasn't really being received. So we went forward with this pink sectional, and yeah, it was something that they loved and and they were kind of known for like people commented on it and everyone loved it for about two years, and then they wanted to change because it just didn't really feel right anymore once that craze kind of died down and they just had this, you know, very pretty millennial pink sectional, but that didn't really feel like the brand. It was kind of random. It was just because of something that they were seeing and liking online. And we, you know, they ended up having to change that out. So that feels like failure to me, right? Like I never want that to happen, especially for something as large and expensive in a space as a sofa or a sectional, which I'm always telling clients, like if we're gonna invest in something, we got to invest in the things that you're constantly touching, feeling sitting on every day. And the sofa is and sectional is one of those things. So that was something I always take with me. And I just won't, I won't let that happen again because it's not in the interest of my clients and it's not in the interest of my business either.

Lyssia Katan 28:15

So, how do you make a space feel timeless if you're working with a client and you know this is gonna be their space through getting married, having kids, hosting family dinners? This space has to do a lot. How do you make a space timeless and really feel that?

Molly Torres Portnof 28:29

Again, it's getting to know my clients and knowing exactly what makes the most sense for them, what they like, what they don't like, why they don't like, because a lot of times clients will say things like, I hate leather or I hate velvet. And I get to realize that it's because they hated this, you know, polyvelvet that their grandma had in their house growing up. And it's like, it's it's you know what I mean? Like people will say things and not actually understand or mean it. So it's really again about investigating what they actually like, what what will feel good to them. And it's just really investing in textures and materials and groupings of furniture that um are a mix of old and new and work for the space plan. I mean, it's it's not just one thing, it's really the whole process that is is the whole design process that's geared towards making sure that it's a timeless space, that they're never going to get tired of visually that is going to continue to grow with them functionally. That's the whole basis of what we're doing. So I don't think that there's one or two things that can just make a space timeless. I really think it starts from the very beginning with the concept and the space planning and just kind of everything blooming from there. But what I will say is that making sure that we're not investing in the newest, I'm just thinking of like the boot clay craze that again was like around 10 years ago or so when everything was boucle. And if I had designed a space that had a bootclay sofa and armchairs and pillows everywhere and what have you, like we would be in big trouble right now because that is just not what everybody is being shoved in their algorithm these days. And that would be something that didn't really like stand the test of time. So for me, it's just about making sure that we're incorporating materials, especially that feel good to the client and will feel good to the client for years to come and are not being used just because it's trendy at the moment. Yeah. And the same goes for color as well. It's just we're not choosing a color because it's the Benjamin Moore color of the year or whatever it is that we're just being shown constantly all the time. It's something that the client actually responds to, feels good in, and will continue to feel good in for years to come.

Lyssia Katan 30:36

During the entire design process, are there elements that clients really stress about that actually don't really matter that much?

Color Anxiety And Confidence

Molly Torres Portnof 30:44

Well, color is a big one because I think there's a lot of fear behind color for some reason. And I think it's it's more because it just feels very permanent to clients, whether it's a paint color or a color of a large furniture piece or whatever it is, color just seems to bring out a lot of emotions. And for me, it's like I think that someone who says they hate the color blue, like it's almost like a personal mission of mine to like show them that like their favorite room might be a blue room. You know what I mean? It's it's more about like there's so much more that goes into color than just like saying the word. Like there's the depth and the sheen and the tone and the colors that are being used with it alongside of it, and all these types of things. So really like getting clients to, and again, I'm not ever trying to change a client's mind or shove something on them that they really don't want. But for me, it's like more about opening their mind to being curious about things that why they feel they don't like this color or why they feel like gravitate towards this color, or what would it mean to color drench a room, or how would that feel for them? And just kind of getting them to go there or like take a step in a direction that they might not have before, but that might actually like be like so good for them and feel so cool in person and so calming and all those types of things. So yeah, color is a big one where clients get super fearful and it's almost fun for me to sh prove them wrong a little bit about why it's not a scary thing at all. It's something that works with us, not against us. And a lot of the times the colors that they gravitate towards most when their, you know, the project is finished are the ones that they kind of started the project thinking that they liked the least.

Lyssia Katan 32:22

Right. It's like the parent who doesn't want the dog ends up being obsessed with the dog.

Molly Torres Portnof 32:27

Oh yeah.

Lyssia Katan 32:28

Totally. So you work a lot with natural materials. How do these choices affect how people experience a space over time? Whether it's wear or patina, how do you take that into consideration?

Natural Materials, Patina, And Comfort

Molly Torres Portnof 32:41

That's also like individual to clients, right? So my personal feeling is that I really love uh materials that kind of age. I like to, I was I was liken it to when most people they have fond memories, or just even the idea of this like brings positive feelings of a home with lines on either a wall or like a doorway for the the kids' age as they get older, whatever that is, like a little like personal growth chart. Like that to me is just so precious. And that is what materials aging feels like to me. It's like if you've walked into a space where marble feels, you know, like age with time, and there's like patinaed brass and there's leather that has, you know, isn't perfect and pristine and has, you know, some like wear with it. Like that to me feels so cozy and just like it's there's a Japanese word called umami, which there's no direct English like translation, but it essentially means it means what it feels like to step into a warm bath, which is just like ultimate like comfort. And that is what like aging of materials and textures that just kind of change over time feels like to me. Cause I love to be in a space that feels like it's it's been and existed for a while and will continue to exist for a while. A lot of clients feel that way too, but I would say some don't. Some don't want something that's going to change over time. And I also uh understand that as well. Like, you know, like a polished nickel to me is gorgeous and beautiful, and it's not necessarily going to, you know, change or tarnish over time, and that's fine. I think there's like a very healthy mix between the two that is like the perfect ultimate, just making a space feel, again, collected and done over time when you have some materials that are just kind of older and others that feel a little bit new and shiny or like that just feels really good to me. Some clients feel like they want everything to feel collected and aged and and worn over time, which I love. Other clients feel like they want everything to feel a bit more kind of, I guess, timeless in a way, then it doesn't really change. And that also is fine with me. It's really just finding the balance between the two and going for the materials like, let's say we want a material that isn't going to Betina. Like, let's go with like a polished nickel or something that still feels like soft and inviting and cozy, but isn't like necessarily a matte black everything that's just very stark and kind of modern and strong and in your face. So yeah, it's a balance. I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer, but you'll just notice in my spaces that there are a lot of materials and textures and and things that just while they might look shiny and new in a picture, a lot of times they don't. Like they there's like some type of aging to them, and that is purposeful and done because I like those things, and a lot of my clients do as well.

Lyssia Katan 35:32

Have you noticed a shift in what clients are asking for based on or caused by AI and what they're seeing today on the internet? Things are super perfect that may be drawing them to more imperfect, or have client requests kind of stayed common and similar across the board?

AI Perfection vs Human Spaces

Molly Torres Portnof 35:51

I haven't had clients come to me so much with AI thoughts. I mean, I could be wrong, right? Because they could be coming to me with questions that I don't know are fueled by AI. Like that could very much be happening. But yeah, I haven't had clients be like, oh, I saw this AI room and I want to do it. Like, if I had that conversation with a client, I'd be like, well, that is not possible because that essentially is like a Sims recreation. And even the best AI renderings, which are so cool, and I am not against it at all. I feel like there is ways for AI to really fuel our industry and make things easier for designers and architects and vendors and everybody. But to say that you saw an AI room and that's what you want is just so to me, like, I don't want to say horrifying, that's a very strong word. But it just, it's not, it's it's then what is the point of hiring a human person to create a space for another human if all you want is something that's created by a computer? It just it doesn't, to me right now, it doesn't really like jive or or or make sense. So my my answer would be like, let's explore real things. Like let's ex let's let's see what you like about that AI image and what let's pull some pieces from what you're liking about the image, not the overall, but like what are some certain aspects or elements of this AI image that are making you like it, and let's explore that further rather than rather than trying to create this fake image and make it real life. I'm not very interested in that. And I would let a client know that as well.

Lyssia Katan 37:26

I I'm curious to know if there will ever be a tip-off point where we've seen so much perfection online that we we want the imperfection, we want the handmade, we want the imperfect and and maybe scrapped and chipped because it's not AI and it feels so real.

Molly Torres Portnof 37:42

Yeah. I think more than AI, like the whole like wabi-sabi, and even like the maximalness, like some of these trends, like trends that come and go, they're not necessarily trends that are just like popping up. They're things just like fashion. Everything old is new again, right? So like there has been maximalism since Marie Antoinette. Like these things are not new, but like it just might be something that we're newly obsessed with at this moment. And wabi-sabi or like Japanese design where it's just a little bit more paired back and tranquil, and looking at um, you know, I think that these types of things have made people more open to materials and like imperfect materials and imperfect spaces that aren't just like so organized or again, or perfect. I don't I'm trying to think of a different word from perfect. I think that those things have opened up people's minds to more, and that's a great thing because then it makes clients more curious, open, and willing to go for that, even if it's not necessarily something that they're used to or that they think they gravitate towards, just kind of even explaining things about like why there's materials and textures and spaces that shouldn't be so perfect and and they they don't feel very welcoming to others. And you know, you can like modern design and not want a space that feels like you everything's you know, sharp edges and you can't touch it, and it's like a being in a museum. Like most I don't really have clients who want those types of things because that's just not what I'm putting out there, and I just don't, I don't think that would be a good fit. So I don't really have a lot of people who are coming to being like coming to me being like, I want an ultra modern, ultra, you know, perfect space with all these hard edges and everything like that. I'm not really getting that, but I do think that clients who don't really know what they want and are coming to me because they like images they're seeing of mine, they don't really know what they like about it, but they do like it. But they've also just been seeing over the years some of these like design movements kind of become more popular and they it's caused them to be more open to, again, spaces that are imperfect and materials and finishes and things that are imperfect as well. So that's made my job easier, I would say. And I really appreciate and like that and hope that that continues.

Lyssia Katan 39:54

Do you think there is something that people underestimate in a space that ends up having a really big impact on how a space feels?

The Real Foundation: Space Planning

Molly Torres Portnof 40:02

I think that space planning, going back to, I know I've talked about it a couple of times, but I think that space planning and how a space flows is nothing really works without nailing that. Like nothing, nothing that you can fill a space with or can paint or wallpaper or you know, do to a space is going to help it if the flow is off and if that space planning and the arrangements of things are wrong. And that is kind of like the biggest part of the beginning, besides for overall concepts, which are so fun for everybody. But and like alongside that, our beginning steps involve space planning. And that's something that a lot of clients sometimes kind of like tune out of or they're bored by, or they just like don't understand why we're spending so much time on it. And the reason is because it's truly the foundation for everything. Just like the aesthetic concept is the, you know, foundation for the direction that we're going to be moving in with furnishings and, you know, furniture and rugs and window treatments and all that kind of stuff. Space planning is the foundation for all of it, for all of it to really come together in a space and make it feel good and like a great flow and like it's always meant to be there and it's like supposed to be that way. Nailing that is like my biggest goal. And it's one that sometimes I have to not get clients on board with, but explain a couple of times as to why it is so important, which they will understand at the end, but there's a long road to get to that end. So I understand that it, you know, it takes some time to like understand it. And then when things are physically being implemented, then they're like, oh, I get it. I understand why we spent so much time like nailing this down.

Lyssia Katan 41:41

What are some examples of flow, like good flow versus versus bad flow in a space?

Molly Torres Portnof 41:46

I think a feeling, right? Like so when you walk into a space and you feel immediately overwhelmed, or you feel like there's clutter, or you feel like you can't get to one spot in a space easily, or a space feels so paternous or so large and just so oddly used, and there's really small furniture in a very big space, or it's just kind of arranged in a way that doesn't feel natural or whatever, or think about like going into like a fraternity house, like just like with like the jaws hanging down in the bags in the background. Yes, just like that, like there's a reason why it feels bad, and it's because there's no space planning involved in that. So yeah, I think it's more of a feeling than anything of why something feels good versus why it feels bad. And I think it's also something that people can change on their own without a designer or without a large renovation or whatever it is. I think that sometimes why a space doesn't feel right, it's just because either there's the wrong things in it or they're laid out the wrong way. And that's something that anybody can change. So being armed with that information is really, I think, powerful for a lot of people who don't want to hire somebody or who don't have the time or money to invest in a large-scale, you know, design renovation or something like that.

Lyssia Katan 43:00

So, so yeah, it's very important. Do you have any advice for someone that does want to maybe fix the flow in their space, feel a little better, but doesn't have the budget or the time at the moment to go through a full renovation?

Molly Torres Portnof 43:14

I think the best thing you can do is invest in some painter's tape and lay everything out in person. And by lay it out, I mean tape it out, right? So if you just walk into your space and you feel like something is not right, but you don't know what it is, but you are on your own and you want to move the couch all over the place. And not only do you not want to, but you might physically not be able to. That's where you can take some painter's tape and tape out what it would look like to have the couch in a different direction or in a completely different location, or same with the coffee table or the dining table or whatever it is. And I know it's like easier said than done, right? Because you you typically have a lot of large furniture pieces in the way. But if you like just use your imagination a little bit, but also have it physically taped out and even invest in in. Some um craft paper where you can actually physically fill the space too where that tape out is so it feels a little bit more real. That is such a good way to be like, oh, this actually would work so much better and know that, and then get someone to help you actually physically move the furniture, and then you're you're doing great. Same thing with like a gallery wall or artwork that you've been thinking about, you know, hanging or wanting to make a space feel like better just in terms of what's like physically on the walls. Like that's a great way to do it as well. Just like have your pieces kind of tape them out, tape out how that would actually look and feel, and then you can be a little bit more confident in making those, you know, holes in the wall, essentially.

Lyssia Katan 44:42

Instead of just drilling and hoping that it's gonna look good.

DIY Flow Fixes: Tape, Mockups, Samples

Molly Torres Portnof 44:45

Let's not drill and hope. No, that's not that doesn't sound good to me. We're all guilty of doing that once in a while. But yes, I absolutely understand with you. Another thing is samples. Obviously, I am in design studio, so there's just samples everywhere. But I feel like a lot of people don't know that they can they can request free samples, and even if it's not free, a $3 sample is so much less expensive than investing in something that you've never touched or felt and then realizing that it's wrong. So if you're just thinking like, I know my space feels good flow-wise, but there's just something wrong with this couch, or there's just something wrong with this material that's on X, Y, and Z, invest in some samples of something that you're thinking might work, or a couple of different things. And that is such a better way to touch, feel in your physical space rather than going into a store that's completely different lighting than your own home. And it's, you know, filled with all these things together that have nothing to do with your own home. It's it's good to actually physically sit and feel things in a store, but I think that having a sample to take with you back home or ordering it online and having it in your home is so, so, so important as well, especially for any paint changes that you're making too. And not only samples in that case, but it's it's like actually putting some paint samples on the wall. Because again, things can look so different in different lights, different times of day, different angles of a space. So really just like do your best to do everything you can to be confident in whatever changes that you're gonna make, whether that includes taping something out, physically mocking it up, doing something online on Canva or Pinterest to try and like get that feel of how it would look, and having physical samples to touch and feel.

Lyssia Katan 46:28

Yeah, we're huge on that. I mean, what when you work in tile, tile can be really heavy. And we encourage everyone to get samples before, even if you know this is the perfect tile for you, please get a sample because it makes a huge difference. Something online that you may think has a certain finish you get to see in person, it has a totally different finish. And let's say you have light in your space, or sometimes different colors can show up really differently in person. So I'm glad you said that because we are always telling people samples first, that's the way to go.

Molly Torres Portnof 46:59

Well, I'm sure you know this too, but for me, my biggest nightmare in life that's very overstated, but like it is a big nightmare, is having the perfect tile, installing it looks amazing. And then the wrong grout, the wrong grout can ruin a thousand. Ruin the tile, ruin the space. And it's like, and grout is tough, right? Because like grout samples are pretty bad. Honestly, I will say this like that is something I hope I AI can fix somehow. I don't know if it's like AI printing or whatever, but like the grout samples we have need to be better because they are not really a very, very true, unless you know something that I don't, and in that case, I would love to hear it. But it's so hard to get a real grout sample that actually looks like it's going to dry that way. And that is scary for me because we're investing so much typically in, let's say, a huge bathroom renovation where there's so much tile involved. I want to make sure that grout is like the perfect grout for the space. So yeah. Samples for tile. I wish I had samples for grout with a grain of salt. I know, but this is something we should come up with.

Lyssia Katan 48:10

The closest thing I've seen is Mape does have those little strips that you can put next to the tile, but the color just it's yeah, it's not so accurate. The way it dries is very different. It's not.

Molly Torres Portnof 48:20

But what I have seen Laticrete has that too, yeah.

Lyssia Katan 48:23

Yeah, but what I have seen people feeling is is matching the grout or adding paint color to the grout. I'm not sure how possible that is with certain types of grout, but to match it to the color, especially if it's a solid color tile, which has been looking really nice.

Molly Torres Portnof 48:38

That does look nice. And also something I would say whether you're working with a designer or not, and you are embarking on a tile project, whether again it's DIY, which I would not really recommend, but let's just say you're a DIY person, or you're hiring a tile installer who hopefully is amazing, request or very strongly request that they do a like a physical layout of the tile with the grout and with a couple of different grout choices so that you could see what that looks like and you could see what it looks like dried. That has saved me on so many projects. It's something I will always do for my own home, for clients, and anyone is able to like empower themselves to ask their tile installer to do that for them too. Because yeah, you're you want the tile to shine and you don't want the grout to ruin that.

Lyssia Katan 49:23

Yeah. We've had that on several projects. The architect orders four samples and they glue it onto a board and grout it just to confirm that it it looks the way they imagine it to. Because, like, yeah, it could be the most perfect tile. Yes. You pick the wrong grout, there's not really much you can do at that point. And then talk about not feeling good in your space. Every time you look at it, you're frustrated, you're resentful, you're angry. Yeah, it's not great.

Molly Torres Portnof 49:48

Especially if you're a perfectionist, that's like all you think about.

Grout Choices That Make Or Break Tile

Lyssia Katan 49:52

I completely understand. So, how do you approach a space? Either it's a it's a living room or it's a kitchen that has to do a lot without really overwhelming the space. A space that it's a living room, but it's also the place that maybe kids run around and it's it's a place where you host family and friends. How do you approach that without making it overwhelming in terms of fabric or materials or rugs, everything?

Molly Torres Portnof 50:17

Yeah, I I'm actually working on a project right now in Williamsburg. Um, it's a new build. It is furnishing plus some work. It's not a major uh construction project, but what we're there's so this there's this big great room, right? So you open the door, it's entry, living, dining, kitchen, all in this one large space. And what we're doing, and it's not always accessible, but I think you can use some furniture in place, is we're we're implementing millwork. So we're doing custom shelving that's basically separating the entry, so making a true entry point. And it also serves a lot of function because it's basically like coke closet and shelving for all the books that my clients have and decor and it's not and et cetera. There's, you know, shoes that can be stored. There's a ton of storage space within this big, large millwork piece. And then on the other side in living space, we're also doing a big millwork piece. So we're using millwork essentially to divide the space, like physically, and also create a ton of storage where there is no storage uh currently. And uh even in the kitchen, we're gonna be building and installing like a kitchen island to just kind of break up the kitchen a little bit further between kitchen and dining area and also again create more storage and more space for appliances and stuff. And I know that's not accessible to everyone because millwork is very expensive. But if it is accessible to you, I think that's a very, very, very great way to divide a space without closing any rooms off, like still embracing this big large room, but also making it work as hard as it can and visually having some separation between spaces so it doesn't feel like you're in a cavernous space. And another, you know, again, solution to that would be to be, you know, to use furniture instead of millworks. So instead of a custom mailworks piece, that could be just like a very long, pretty bookshelf that kind of serves that double function of storage and also separation and um same thing in the the living area, like having a, you know, a big, awesome, gorgeous media center or bookshelf or whatever around the TV, just to kind of like anchor that space a bit more too. And then, of course, lighting and rugs are a really great way too, to kind of visually separate spaces as well. Like obviously having a runner rug for the entry and a large area rug for the living room and things that kind of break it up are also great ways to kind of delineate spaces while having this one overall uh large space.

Lyssia Katan 52:44

That's great advice. Especially with times where, or for listeners who don't have the time or the budget to be able to create that separation, it's it seems like it it creates a very healthy space where you know your bedroom is not also your office and is not also your living room. It just creates separation.

Zoning Open Spaces With Millwork

Molly Torres Portnof 53:05

Yeah. I think anything that can physically separate will help your brain mentally separate too, so that to your point, you're able to have a space within a within a room that is just for relaxing or a space within a room that's just for working or whatever it is, um, without having it be so permanent, I guess, like a permanent change.

Lyssia Katan 53:23

So going back to the feelings, when a client says that they want a space to feel calm, for example, what does that actually mean in design terms?

Molly Torres Portnof 53:33

Calm is relative, right? Because something that feels calm to someone can be completely different that is calming someone else's nerve nervous system. So I don't want to give any big like, this is what calm means, because it really is case by case basis. But I know for me and for a lot of my clients, calm means that there's like like visual rest. So that's going back to our talk talking about restraint. Um, so that you walk into a space and whether, because right for me, color is calm. Like you're getting a little glimpse into my office now, but color and pattern are calming to me. Like this space that I've created, this office space, is filled with things that for some other people might not be calm at all. Like they they might not think that pattern or color or whatever is calm, but that puts my brain to rest. It's really about like the restraint that's used to make it so that not everything is patterned. Like there is, you know, some place for your brain, for your eyes to actually rest that is just like, I don't want to say that it's nothing, but it just it is. How do you describe calm? I'm trying to use another word for calm. Um, relaxing. A place where your eyes to rest that feels good, that it just feels good, like that feels like your brain can kind of just like stop. It's not working so hard. It's not trying to categorize everything or or to make sense of like all these different things together. Like your brain can just rest on something and you feel relaxed and good. And that is usually a calming space. So one of the biggest things that I do when I'm I'm you know beginning to work with new clients, especially is it's ask those types of questions. What makes you feel calm? What makes you feel good? What makes you feel relaxed? What makes you feel comfortable? What makes you feel welcomed? And it could be things that are physical, it could be things that are mental, it could just be memories that they have, feelings that they have, hotels that they've been to, restaurants that they, you know, go to all the time for comfort meals, like all those types of things kind of help me figure out what is calming, welcoming, happy, exciting, whatever it is that they want the space to feel. And calm is a big part of that. And then we kind of build off of that. But yeah, a gener a rule that I typically use in any space that I'm trying to make not only calm, but just like work for my clients is restraint, just making sure that it's just not too much of something. There's not too many heroes in the space, or your eye doesn't know where to land. Is it the the really crazy chandelier, or is it the you know, the art piece, or is it the, you know, velvet silphur, whatever it is? Like you just want everything to kind of serve each other and have some spaces where your brain can just kind of like stop working so hard and and your nervous system can calm down. And yeah, just figuring that out for the client.

Lyssia Katan 56:13

I'm glad we brought this full circle. I want to know if someone listening was only gonna take one idea from your work, what would you want that to be? Because it we really did take this full circle from restraint to restraint.

Defining Calm And Visual Rest

Molly Torres Portnof 56:26

I know. I would say that a lot of people look at my work and they feel like it's happy, like it's there's a lot of personality in it. And I would say that like anyone is empowered to make a space feel like them and feel like their personality and feel like it can evolve and change over time. But like when you when someone walks in, it feels like them. Anyone can do that. And it's just figuring out what it's kind of like like putting on a good outfit, right? Like something I learned in working in fashion is just like everyone's fat fashion tastes are so different. Somebody can walk in and be wearing heels and a blazer and you know, like leather pants or whatever it is, and that's what makes them feel powerful and good and at rest. And someone else like me can it's just like it's about materials, it's about like, you know, something that feels actually good and paired with other things with um within my body. And that just makes me feel confident to like have a conversation or to meet somebody new or to deal with a contractor or whatever it is. And I feel like the home is a physical embodiment of that, where you walk in the door, like you want to feel good about like walking in that door, walking out of that door, walking from room to room. And I think from my work, what you can take is that like if you take some risks with color and material and you focus on things that you really like rather than what's being pushed on you. And if you try and incorporate some custom pieces and vintage and heirlooms with some new and all those types of things, you can create a space that feels like you and feels like so awesome and happy and personality feels when you walk in the door every day. And that's just what I want for everybody, whether they work with me or not. So yeah, I hope they take that from my work.

Lyssia Katan 58:09

Molly, thank you so much for your time, for your expertise, for your advice, and for being on the show and sharing all your wisdom with our listeners. We will link everything in the show notes, but I'm so grateful for your time and your presence here. And I really appreciate it. So thank you so much for being on the show. Appreciate it too. Thank you so much for spending this time with me on Room2think. If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to follow the show, subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who you think would really appreciate a more thoughtful approach to their space. You can find more Design Meets Psychology insights on social, in our community, and definitely in upcoming episodes so you can build a better life by design. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you next time.